Jonna Doolittle Hoppes details her grandfather Jimmy Doolittle's daring WWII raid on Japan, his innovative aviation career, and his profound personal legacy.
Announcer
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and our other wars and conflicts. America’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson.
These stories will touch your heart, inspire you and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Monson.
Kim Monson
Welcome to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. This show precipitated from a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings there in Western Europe.
to get a toehold in Europe to fight Hitler, ultimately defeat him and the Nazi regime there. Return back stateside realizing that these stories are so important. Each individual story is unique. But we’ve got a really special story for you today.
And that is the story about the Doolittle raid over Japan. And on the line with me is his granddaughter, Jimmy Doolittle’s granddaughter, and that is Jonna Doolittle-Hoppes. And Jonna, it is great to have you on the show here. Well, Kim, thank you for inviting me.
I look forward to visiting today. Your grandfather was a remarkable man. As I was looking at the whole Wikipedia explanation on him, I had always known or heard about the Doolittle Raid, but it comes after a rather remarkable career, but he was your grandfather. So tell us about your grandfather.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
You know, it’s funny. You hear of all the things he did in his life, but as a kid, he was just Grant. And he was the one that was fun. He played with us.
He made us laugh. He also was someone, you know, growing up that I could go to. My dad also was in the Air Force, so we traveled a lot. But my grandparents’ home was sort of Doolittle Central, where we gathered every year as a family.
The things I remember most about him are his sense of humor, his ability to analyze things, and the fact that he could talk on anyone’s level. He could be talking with a top scientist and then turn around and get on his knees and talk with a young scout and give them the same amount of attention and interest in what they have to say.
Kim Monson
Do you not think that that probably was something that was very important that he brought to the Doolittle Raid, the ability to communicate? And it sounds to me like make each and every individual that he was communicating with feel important and that he believed in them. Because he did. He
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
believed that you led by example. He never asked his men to do anything that he wasn’t willing to do. In fact, when it came to qualifying as a pilot for the raid itself, he made himself go through the same tests and the same training that his pilots did. In other words, he didn’t just assume he’d get a slot, he earned the slot.
And he led that way with every single assignment he had. You know, he was part of World War I, way back in 1917. and did a lot of things through the military and then, you know, went on beyond the raid to be commander of the 12th, 15th and 8th Air Forces throughout Europe.
Kim Monson
Well, he was born in 1896. He died in 1993. And again, a remarkable career. He received the Medal of Honor for the Doolittle Raid.
And he was a general when he, I guess, retired. He retired. Is that correct? He retired.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Actually, he went back from active duty into the reserves and then retired out of the reserves. And he also was awarded the Medal of Freedom, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. So he’s the only person to have ever received both.
Kim Monson
Oh my, I just got chills as you mentioned that that is pretty amazing. Let’s talk a little bit about as I was looking at this a man of just tremendous pushing the envelope and courage as we because he served as a flight instructor during World War One and so training pilots to be able to go into combat and that was on the leading edge of air warfare at that time.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
You know, it’s funny because he was always disappointed that he didn’t get sent over to Europe in World War I and was retained back in San Diego. And I think that’s pretty much what made him the pilot that he became because he always pushed himself. He spent more time in an airplane flying different maneuvers than probably anybody else throughout history. In fact, when Air and Space Magazine, Smithsonian’s Air and Space Magazine named him the top pilot in history, which our family was pretty honored to have that happen.
But he did push himself and throughout flight tests, he pushed himself, he pushed the equipment. And I think what a lot of people don’t realize is by the time he served in World War II, he had a doctorate. of Science and Aeronautical Engineering from MIT. So he wasn’t just a hot dog pilot, he also was a scientist.
He had a good grasp on what he was doing and what he wanted to do.
Kim Monson
Well, and tell us a little your grandmother, because what I have learned is there is always a family behind there that is supporting. And of course, I’m not sure how I would really think about all of this testing, this aeronautical testing, although it was so important. Tell us about your grandmother.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
You know, I adored my grandfather, but I worship my grandmother. She was an extremely intelligent woman. She had actually a photographic memory. and during World War I, while he was down in San Diego, she actually worked at the shipping yards in San Pedro and was pretty much the security, because she knew everybody who could get in and had a right to be down there.
They met in high school. She was about six months older than he was. And they fell in love, and they spent their entire lives together. But she was sort of the rudder.
As you read about him, you’ll find that he was pretty playful and pushed the envelope. Sometimes he was a little ornery. When he was stationed down in San Diego, one time he pulled a stunt that got him grounded for a while. His commanding officer, Bob Worthington, actually insisted that my grandmother come down and sort of settle him down.
is
Kim Monson
Well, and Jonna, let’s really think about what he was doing. He was doing so many things that were first time, these test flights and, you know, across the country. We now take all of that for granted. But that was dangerous in some ways.
However, I remember from the last interview that we did, and you kind of alluded to this, he wasn’t just this hotshot pilot. He really looked at things from a scientific standpoint, really planned things out. And I think it’s important that people understand that.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Yeah, he, you know, between the war, the pilots that stayed in the Army Air Corps, they really had to keep aviation in front of the public eye. So their job was really to, you know, stay in the newspaper, or stay on the radio. So he did a lot of, you know, set a lot of records, the first coast to coast and under 24 hours, and then the first coast to coast and under 12 hours. And he pushed the envelope on all of those different types of flights.
But it’s because he understood aeronautics. He understood what an airplane could do. He also was the first person to do the first blind flight, to fly on instruments alone. He was invited to be a part of the Full Flight Laboratory, which was funded by Harry Guggenheim.
And their job was to develop instruments. And the instruments they came up with were the precursors in what we have in all airplanes today. So he was the first person to get into an airplane, take off, fly a prescribed course, and land without ever being able to see the ground. So he really understood the mechanics of flight.
And as a pilot, he knew what an airplane, what he wanted an airplane to do. And as this scientist, he began to understand how to make an airplane do that. So that really was what he felt was his greatest contribution.
Kim Monson
Well, that really is an important contribution. And once again, I’m thinking the first time to ever do that. He really stepped into this with courage, though, because of, I think, his scientific background. And I just see a tremendous amount of courage in what he did in this remarkable career.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
A lot of people thought he was risky, but the risks he took were calculated. As I said, he understood the science behind him. Also, you know, for example, he did the first outside loop, which is, you know, level flight going into a steep decline, inverted flight, and then
Announcer
a
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
steep return to level flight. And they thought that a pilot wouldn’t be able to withstand the g-force, and they also thought that an airplane wouldn’t be able to stand it. Well, he would do that by, he would, you know, do part of the loop and continue to do more and more of the loop and land and check the airplane so that he understood, you know, he tested it before he really did it for the public. But beyond that, he also did a paper, a study.
His master’s degree was on stress on an airplane. So it looked like this big daredevil thing, but he understood the science behind it. So many of the things he did, He would fly in weather that a lot of other pilots wouldn’t fly in, but that’s because he knew every cow on the ground below him, because he flew it over and over again. He wanted to understand, again, the science behind it and know what he was doing.
So where a lot of people thought he was a daredevil, yeah, he was to an extent, but he also studied it. It wasn’t just this half cocktail, I think I’ll do an outside loop today. He knew what he was doing.
Kim Monson
You know, I really think we can learn from that. Jonna, how many we’re going to be coming into break here in just a minute. But how many children in the family?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
My grandfather was an only child.
Kim Monson
Okay.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
And he and my grandmother had two sons.
Kim Monson
And my
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
both of them were Air Force. And my uncle passed away in 1958. and my father passed away in 2015. My uncle had one child and my parents have five.
Kim Monson
If you
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
want to go beyond that, there’s a bunch of Doolittles.
Kim Monson
Well, I love that. These stories are so important. I’m talking with Jonna Doolittle-Happes. Am I saying that correctly?
Is it Happes? Today April 18th, 79 years ago was the Doolittle raid over Japan and just really excited that we’re bringing this story to you Jimmy Doolittle was a remarkable man and what he accomplished is astounding. Before we go to break though, this story is brought to you by many of my great partners and one of those great partners is Hooters Restaurants that are located right here in the metro area. They have five locations, Loveland, Westminster, Colorado Springs, Aurora, and Lone Tree.
They have all kinds of specials. whether or not it’s Kids Eat Free, Saturday specials. And now that we’re opening up a bit, it’s great to get together with friends, watch some of the sporting events on the televisions. Go to my website, kimmonson.com.
That’s M-O-N-S-O-N.com and click on the Sponsor tab and go to the Hooters icon. You’ll get all the specials there. I am talking with Jonna Doolittle-Happas. She is the granddaughter of Jimmy Doolittle and we’ll be right back.
Speaker 5
REMAX Realtor Karen Levine helps bring to life the individual stories of our servicemen and women. With her sponsorship of America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson, Karen honors the sacrifices of our military and is grateful for our freedom. As a member of the National Association of Realtors Board of Directors, Karen works to protect private property rights for all of us. Karen has a heart for our active duty military and veterans and is honored to help you buy or sell your home.
Call Karen Levine at 303-877-7516 to help you navigate buying or selling your home. That’s 303-877-7516.
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Kim Monson
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out my website, that is americasveteranstories.com. And today is the 79th anniversary of the Doolittle Raid, which was an attack on the Japanese mainland, or I guess the Japanese island it would be called. and on the line with me is Jimmy Doolittle’s granddaughter and that is Jonna Doolittle-Happas.
Jimmy Doolittle was a remarkable man and we’re talking about him and really from a granddaughter’s standpoint, when was it that you first learned that he wasn’t just Gramps, that there was all this other part of Jimmy Doolittle?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
You always knew that he was well-known because people would come up to you in a restaurant or You know, when he’d come to visit, the news would come over. But to us, he was really just Grant. And I had to become an adult, really, to appreciate his accomplishments. So it wasn’t really until the movie Pearl Harbor came out, and I started writing a book about not just him, but my grandparents, that I really could appreciate all of the things he accomplished.
So, as a kid, you know, when you grow up around somebody like that, they’re just gramps. And what’s the book? It’s Calculated Risk. I wrote it when it came out in 2005.
And it’s the story of my grandparents. It’s a memoir of who they were. But it was written so that it’s kind of a funny story. I wrote it to make sure their memory was, you know, what I remembered.
but it really became a springboard to do similar things to what you do. I consider myself a professional nag. I go around and nag veterans to make sure their stories are recorded.
Kim Monson
I would say that you and I probably are sisters in that particular endeavor because the stories, don’t you find, Johnna, that the stories are so rich and sometimes it takes a while, even with this show. I encourage people to be patient as the story unfolds and what I find sometimes because we’re constricted by the broadcast clock is then by we’re getting near the end and the veteran is feeling more and more comfortable And then I’m looking at the clock thinking, oh my gosh, there are stories here that I’m going to miss because once they get comfortable. But it’s not that instantaneous thing that we expect in our society right now.
These stories have to unfold. At least that’s been my experience.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
And the people that you don’t even realize. I just did an article for Airpower History on Eugene Dietrich, who I’ve known my entire life. And it turns out not only he was a test pilot, he also did a lot of the testing on nuclear and thermonuclear weapons and the effect on airplanes. He was a pilot in Vietnam, saved Dieter Dangler.
He did all of these stuff, all of these wonderful things, and he was just genius. So the people around you have amazing stories if you just take a few minutes to listen.
Kim Monson
and it is really important to do so. Let’s go back to the story of your grandfather. One of the things, this is on Wikipedia, is that he worked for Shell. This was in between World War I and World War II, is that correct?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Yeah, he left active duty for the Army Air Corps in 1930. Now he’d been a First Lieutenant for something like 12 years or whatever it was. And so he went into the
Kim Monson
And there it says that he was worked in the development of this 100 octane aviation gasoline, which that I’ve got, I’m trying to read between the lines, but the fact through that creativity, that innovation, they were always working on not only the machine, but also the fuel, which all these things, I think, prepared ultimately to success, our success in World War Two, your thoughts on that, Jonna?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Well, as a race pilot, he really understood the importance of lead in fuel. And so when it came to beginning to build war machines, he realized that there were engines being developed that could use a higher octane fuel, but nobody had developed the fuel. And it was called Doolittle Folly or the Million Dollar Blender. He talked shell oil into developing 100 octane fuel.
which eventually was what made us so that we could have the Mustang in World War Two, a fighter plane that could escort the bombers all the way over to target and back. So it really became one of the things he was most proud of was the fact that they did this fuel and they could then develop the engines that could use it. And we had longer range and more powerful engines in the war.
Kim Monson
And you just mentioned something that I hadn’t really realized. And until I started to do all these interviews is that early on in the war, now I will actually I talked to somebody early on in this project that they ended up having to ditch over the Pacific Ocean, because they ran out of fuel. But our bombers would end up going over the target without any cover. And as you mentioned, the P-51, I’ve interviewed some of those pilots, and they loved that plane.
But just think about it. You send your bombers out, and they can only be accompanied or protected for a certain time. And when they get over the target is when all this flak would come up. And the closer you got to the target, the more flak you had, which is I never realized that until I started to do this project about taking so much flak.
Well, it clearly came from the battles that we had in World War II and other battles, of course. But when they finally did get to have cover as they were going to the target, it changed things significantly in the war, Jonna.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
It did that, and also there was a decision made in England with the 8th Air Force where they, instead of just flying cover for the bombers, the fighters were released with the order to take out the enemy. So it was the first time that the fighters were allowed to actually engage the enemy in the air and on the ground. And what they discovered was through that, the attrition of German fighters made it easier for the bombers to get to target and stuff. That was one of the most controversial decisions that Gramps made.
that turned out to be one of the better decisions. And you’ll find out if you ask a P-51 pilot, he’ll tell you the fact that he could chase the enemy was pretty spectacular at that point. He wasn’t tied to the bombers.
Kim Monson
Well, and again, I think that it it took time, but it actually changed a bit the tide of the war in that particular development. And so this is a great historical lesson for people to hear the development of the fuel, the development of the machines, the development of policy, to change things to set us up for success instead of of not, and I think engaging in being able to chase the enemy is very important. Any comments about the P-51?
Because people that have flown that plane loved that plane. We’ve got a couple of minutes. Any comments on that, Jonna?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Well, she really gave us the range, you know, the P-40. could take the Palmers just so far over target. But by the time you got to the P-51 with the larger engine, and the higher octane fuel, she actually gave us more coverage than we’d ever had before. So she, she did a big role in in our victory in World War Two.
Kim Monson
And I can’t remember is was it only the pilot on a P-51? Or was there two people on that? No, just just the pilot.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Now there were a few trainers, a couple of them or a few of them had a second seat, but basically the pilots flew alone.
Kim Monson
And again, I just think it’s so remarkable when we think about P-51s going out, and explain like a bomber formation. I again, this is something that I learned, but there was a formation as they would. And again, this was over Europe, but there were different levels. And then they had the cover on the side.
Explain that to our listeners, Jonna.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Well, the bombers, if you’re talking about the 58th Air Force, the bombers came from different bases, and they were given positions in the bomber stream. So they would fly at different levels, they would fly that they would fly in an overall formation, each group having its own formation within it. Now, there are people that are much smarter about this and know a lot more about it than I do. But, you know, some of the stories that come out of the 8th Air Force, where maybe the lead plane didn’t quite hit its mark and there’d be a gap and the Germans would come up between the groups.
I mean, the bloody 100. has some remarkable stories of what it was like when they would fly in formation, and a particularly sad one when the Germans came up between the groups and pretty much decimated the entire flight.
Kim Monson
We take for granted, I think, the courage and the sacrifice of so many. We’re going to go to break, Jonna. And when we come back, let’s talk about the Doolittle Raid, which is remarkable. It happened 79 years ago today.
But before we do that, this show is brought to you by some of my very great sponsors. And on the line with me is one of those great sponsors, and that is Hal Van Hercke. He is the owner of Castlegate Knife & Tool. It is a family-owned business located right here in Sedalia, Colorado.
They have the most extensive knife selection west of the Mississippi for sure. Hal Van Hercke, welcome to the show.
Speaker 6
Thank you, Kim. It’s always a pleasure to be here.
Kim Monson
Well, and you are a sponsor of both the Kim Monson Show as well as America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. You are a veteran, Hal Van Hercke.
Speaker 6
Yeah, I was a veteran in terms of being in both the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard. And so I managed to hit two different branches of service. And my father, was a veteran in World War II, which is going to be pretty relevant to our conversation today, I think.
Kim Monson
Well, definitely. And before we get into that, Hal, because you have such a appreciation, a reverence for our military personnel and our veterans and our first responders, they get a discount at Castlegate Knife and Tool all day long, correct?
Speaker 6
Yes. So we give a discount on all items that we sell either in the store or online. to active duty service members, first responders, veterans. If you walk into the store, if you’re shopping in the store, you just have to let us know.
We’ll give you the discount. If you’re online, you need to contact us and we’ll give you a temporary discount code that you can use for any of your purchases.
Kim Monson
And do they have to show any identification for that or how does that work?
Speaker 6
We usually ask some kind of challenge and code passwords or something like that. We usually like to see some kind of form of ID. It doesn’t have to be the official ID, but if they have something stamped on their driver’s license from a state ID or something like that, that’ll work too.
Kim Monson
Perfect. I so appreciate that you appreciate our veterans and our military personnel and our first responders. Hal, this is an amazing day. 79 years ago today.
Jimmy Doolittle, 45 year old Navy guy, no Army guy, he was Army, because this was a joint Navy Army operation. They did the Doolittle raid over Tokyo, over Japan. It was 80 guys, 16 medium-sized bombers, taking off from an aircraft carrier, the Hornet, in the Pacific. First time this had ever happened, 79 years ago.
Today is when it occurred. I just get chills when I think about it. Hal?
Speaker 6
Yeah, the Doolittle Raid is one of the most famous events in World War II. It’s very close to from my heart because my dad was also in the Army Air Corps in World War II. He flew in both the Army’s equivalent of the DC-3, but also in the B-25 Mitchell bomber as well. He was not on the Doolittle raid.
He joined the war effort. He was much younger. He joined it later in the effort, putting the station in the Philippines and all over the Asia-Pacific. region, but I just remember my dad telling me about Colonel Doolittle himself and the men that were on that mission as being the most, the best pilots and the most courageous men he had ever met.
I don’t know if it was met, but he was trying to tell me when I was a young kid that those men were is a
Kim Monson
And that’s the same with me, Hal. My dad told me about this story. And so it’s just so great to be talking with Colonel Doolittle. He became a general, but Colonel Doolittle’s granddaughter, Jonna Doolittle-Hoppus.
And I so appreciate you, Hal Van Hercke, and Linnea as well, for being a sponsor of this show, because we are doing something I think super important, Hal.
Speaker 6
Yes, and we appreciate doing it for the same reason. We honor our vets and appreciate
Kim Monson
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Speaker 4
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Kim Monson
Welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Check out our website. That is americasveteranstories.com. And on the line with me is Jimmy Doolittle’s granddaughter, Jonna Doolittle Hoppus.
And she has written a book, Calculated Risk, and it is about her grandfather and her grandmother’s lives. And I would highly recommend that. I do have that book, Jonna. I have not read it all yet, but that’s on my list of things to do.
But this Doolittle Raid, I remember hearing about it, but I never really understood it until I started to do some research on this. This was something that was really remarkable. It occurred about four months after the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor. And another thing people don’t realize is the Japanese didn’t stop at Pearl Harbor.
Within about a day, they had taken over the Philippines. They had a battle plan where they wanted to take over the Pacific there, and so this was a really big deal just four months later. Think about it, my friends. There is an attack on American soil, and think about the American ingenuity and creativity and courage to step forward and say, we’re going to do something about it.
So tell us about that, Jonna.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
I think one of the first things to realize is that at that particular time, the Pacific had really become pretty much a Japanese lake. We’d had nothing but defeat. Now, right after Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt calls his chiefs of staff together, and he wanted to find a way to retaliate against Japan. And, you know, Gramps is credited with this wonderful idea of taking bombers off an aircraft carrier, but the truth is, it wasn’t his idea.
It actually came from a submariner, a guy by the name of Captain Lowe, who was flying over a training field, and as the shadow of his airplane passed over the outline of an aircraft carrier, he wondered if we couldn’t take land-based bombers off a carrier. And so he, you know, elevated up the chain of command to Admiral King, and Admiral King called General Arnold, Hap Arnold, and asked him, and Arnold called him my grandfather, not because he was a hot dog pilot, but because he was a scientist. And Gramps came up with the B-25, which is exactly the same plane that the Navy had suggested, really the only plane that could be carried on an aircraft carrier because of wingspan. But, you know, so often he’s credited with this marvelous idea, but it really, yeah, you have to give credit to the Navy.
Kim Monson
Sometimes that’s hard in between services, isn’t it?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Yeah, well, you know, I’m an Air Force brat. That little thing in there, but it truly the other the other really interesting thing about it was it was the first joint mission between the Army Air Corps and the Navy. So it set a lot of different, you know, different high marks. But it was very innovative, because we actually were able to strike Japan in a surprise attack.
Kim Monson
Now tell us about the B-25. Now, is it considered a heavy bomber or not? No, she’s
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
a smaller bomber, so you wouldn’t really call her a heavy, like the B-17s or the other planes. She was a medium-sized plane. It’s really funny because the guys, they didn’t know what the mission was. And so the Hornet was a brand new aircraft carrier.
And our guys were, you know, somebody said, why didn’t you have more experienced pilots? Well, they were the most experienced pilots because the B-25 hadn’t been really flown that much or hadn’t been around that long. But here they load her up, you know, load this aircraft carrier with all these B-25s in Alameda. And everybody thinks they’re just delivering planes someplace.
And they’re all very disappointed. They’re, you know, they’re not sure why they’re doing this. and it wasn’t until they were out to sea that they announced on the ship that, at that point, the Navy guys and the Army Air Corps guys, they had this rivalry going. And as soon as they announced that this task force was bound for Tokyo, it united both.
I didn’t mean that the Navy guys didn’t still beat the guys, the Air Force guys or Army Air Corps guys in poker, but it united this task force. and the mission and and they were pretty proud of the fact that they were going to be the first ones to really strike it.
Kim Monson
Okay, you mentioned that your grandfather had to compete for his position. Tell us about that. What do you
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
mean?
Kim Monson
Well,
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
as far as he’s the one who said that, you know, he was given the head of the, you know, of the force of the mission, he was, you know, named the head of the mission. But as far as the pilots go, he did the same test on takeoff that every single one of those pilots had to do to be able to fly on the mission. They trained 24 crews. Only 16 planes made it on the aircraft carrier, and only 16 crews could take off.
But all 24 crews actually went on the on the mission.
Kim Monson
Okay, because you’d have to have backup for sure. Right. And how many guys on the crew of a B-25? There were five.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Okay.
Kim Monson
So there were basically 60 guys that had been chosen, and they knew that this… There were 80. Excuse me, I guess I should be able to… Math used to be my subject.
I guess it’s not this morning. Okay, so 80. They knew this was very, very dangerous. But yet they, they volunteered right to do this, right?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
They knew it was a dangerous mission, and that anyone could step out from the very beginning. They didn’t know specifically what their mission was. Now there were a handful that had an idea. But it was so secret, not they didn’t even really brief the White House.
They told the White House, the White House, they had something going, but they never briefed. briefed the President of the White House on what the mission actually was. We didn’t want it to get out because think about it. At this point in time, Pearl Harbor had decimated our Pacific fleet.
On this particular task force, you had two aircraft carriers. So they really didn’t want Japan to know that we were coming.
Kim Monson
Okay, and were all the planes on one aircraft carrier? Or was it two?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
All the all the bombers were on on the Hornet. And then the Nimitz had, I can’t think of the name of the other aircraft carrier, I’m sorry, but Nimitz was in charge. The other aircraft carrier had the Navy planes, the fighters that could protect them.
Kim Monson
So they did have some flight, some protection, but not all the way in, did they?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
The fleet, the fleet did.
Kim Monson
Okay.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Well, for example, You know, they knew that if they were spotted, they had just a couple of choices. If they were spotted too far off the islands of Japan, and they couldn’t take off and land somewhere, those airplanes were going to be pushed off the side of the deck of the Hornet and bring the fighters up to protect the fleet. So the fighters were not there to protect the bombers, the fighters were there to protect the fleet.
Kim Monson
And how did they prepare these pilots on the land for the this aircraft? You know, getting off the aircraft? How did they practice that?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
They were taken down to Eglin Field in Florida. And they were actually trained by a naval Navy pilot. And They had a short runway and they just had to keep practicing until they could take off before the end of the mark on the runway. So it was just something that didn’t take them that long to train.
They were up and going. Like you said, the actual attack on Japan was just barely four months after they attacked Pearl Harbor. But they were trained down in Eglin Field on short takeoff.
Kim Monson
And
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
also very low flight.
Kim Monson
Okay. And was the mission low flight as well?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Part of it. When they hit the island, they did well, yeah, they did. Some of them did some skimming along along the water on the way over to keep keep out of any kind of visual contact. And, you know, the bombing over the islands itself, they would come up high bomb, get out, get away and then did a fairly low flight.
back over to China, toward China.
Kim Monson
Okay, and as they were practicing, they obviously probably didn’t have the full fuel load, which as I’ve looked at the pictures as they came off of those aircraft carriers, many of them, you know, went down and then had to climb, but they weren’t quite sure because they needed as much fuel as possible. And that, I mean, I found that fascinating as I watched those go off the aircraft carrier. I’d recommend that people check that out.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Well, yeah, I was gonna say one of the things that they did was, okay, when they were in Eglin, they stripped the bombers down to minimum weight. They had to be as lightweight as possible. Even removing the tail gun, they had a couple of broomsticks painted black in the tail. to give the, you know, to make you think there were guns in it, but they stripped those planes out to the bare minimum weight.
And then they did a rubber bladder of fuel that laid along the fuselage. And then another bladder of fuel that was was in the turret. And when they took off, you have to think about this when they took off, they had five men, four bombs, and the entire aircraft was filled with these bladders of fuel. because they needed it to be able to take off and bomb the islands and then make it to the airstrips in China.
What happened was they were spotted 250 miles further off the coast of Japan than they planned. And so the decision was made to take off and go ahead and complete the mission. And they actually took Oil cans or kitchen cans, they filled them with fuel and each airplane got an extra 10 cans of fuel to be added to the bladder during flight. And they were all collected together and dropped at once, rather than trying to leave, you know, they were afraid of leaving a trail back to the task force.
But that became the critical thing by the time those those boys took off. The bombers weighed more than a fully loaded B-25. They were in a storm, in 30-foot swells, and they took off in daylight, all against what they had planned originally.
Kim Monson
Remarkable. And so your grandfather, I was trying to calculate, he was what, like 45-ish or 46-ish? Yep. He was an old man, 45, yeah.
But the rest of the guys… He’s considered the old man. Yeah. The rest of the guys were pretty young, yes?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
They were all kids. in US
Kim Monson
Of course, I find that astounding that they were all kids, basically. But then also here, you’ve got your grandfather, the mission, I don’t think would have been successful. I mean, I’m being very subjective, but the leadership and the courage to have, quote, unquote, the old man, be heading up the mission, instead of just sending out all those young guys, I think, again, is I just think that’s remarkable, John, I just think it’s remarkable.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
But there’s kind of a funny story, you know, because when when half Arnold and General Arnold tapped Grandad to do the flight, Grandad wanted to actually physically lead it. And so he went to headquarters with active Pentagon to get permission from General Arnold and Arnold said, you know, Jimmy, you can’t lead every mission I give you. You know, we need you here. There’s a more important job for you to do here.
and granddad was crestfallen. He wanted to leave it. So Arnold felt really bad and said to him, well, OK, Jimmy, if Mitch Harmon, his chief of staff, gives you permission, then it’s OK with me. So Grant saluted and thanked him, closed the door, ran down the hall, opened the door to Mitch Harmon’s office, and told him, Hap said I could go if it’s OK with you.
And Harman looked and he said, well, it’s OK with me if it’s OK with Hal. And just as Gramps was closing the door and running down the hall, he heard Hal Arnold on the intercom going, Doolittle’s heading down there. Tell him no. So he actually got to physically lead the mission and was the first pilot to take off from the aircraft carrier.
Kim Monson
We’re going to go to break because this whole thing about leadership, we haven’t really, I don’t think, nailed that kind of the way I would like to. So let’s go to break. This is Kim Monson. This is the 79th anniversary of the Doolittle Raid over Japan.
And I’ve got on the line, Jonna Doolittle Hoppus, who is Jimmy Doolittle’s granddaughter. Stay tuned. We’ll be right back.
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Kim Monson
Welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out my website. That is americasveteranstories.com. Just an amazing story that we have going on today.
I’m talking with Jonna Doolittle-Hoppus, who is Jimmy Doolittle’s granddaughter. The Doolittle Raid is very famous. Her grandfather, a remarkable man. I just wanted to clarify though, he was the old man on the mission and he had asked General Arnold for permission and just re-clarify what happened exactly during that interaction.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Okay, he was tasked to train the men for the mission, but he wanted to physically lead it. And so when he went up to Arnold to get permission to physically lead the mission, Arnold didn’t want to give it to him. He wanted him to stay at the Pentagon. And so that’s when Arnold said, well, if it’s okay with my Chief of Staff, it’s okay with me.
So Grandad ran down to the Chief of Staff’s office and received permission from him by saying that, Arnold said I can leave it if it’s okay with you. And thinking that it was okay with Arnold gave permission and as Gramps was leaving his office, he could hear Arnold calling Harmon saying, Doolittle’s on his way down, tell him not to. So it was just kind of a funny little caveat.
Kim Monson
Okay, let’s get over to the mission now. They, everything is, and you’d mentioned this on the last interview that we’ve done, everything was planned, I think, almost to precision, correct? As much as possible. However, you also mentioned the weather, which is something that you can’t plan for.
So think about this. This is, let’s see, 16 crews of five. And most of them just young, young men. And they’re going to go off and take off from the Hornet.
And but they’re they’re spotted by what some Japanese fishing vessels. Okay. And so they, he makes a decision that they’re going to go right.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
The decision was made to go, and they took off, as I said, in daylight. Now, a couple of interesting things happened. First of all, they can’t fly in formation. They want to separate and not be spotted as a group.
So they all basically are taking off and going one after another. Also, remember, they couldn’t line up in formation either because of the fuel shortage. So they all have targets in Japan. All of them hit their target with the exception of one group that didn’t hit it.
And then they head for China. Now, 15 airplanes headed for China and either crash landed or bailed out, ditched in the ocean. One crew headed to Russia. And there’s a story behind that particular crew.
they were interned. They are the only plane that landed. The plane was confiscated. The troops were the crew was interned, but the rest of them hit their targets basically and either crashed in in Japan or ditched in or crashed in China or ditched in the ocean right off the coast.
Kim Monson
Well, and Steve had an interesting question in between, as we were talking as we were in between break, that why didn’t they go to Korea? But in I’m not sure either, but if they could have, I think they would have, but I’m guessing the Japanese probably was actually controlling Korea at that time. So they had to go on over into China. What do you want our listeners to know about these crews and what happened to them?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Well, I think one of the things that that people need to realize is the rain itself, you know, did very, very little damage. There were 16 planes, four bombs each. So physically, there was very, very little damage done. But psychologically, it did three things.
First of all, it, you know, gave a boost to America, because we’d had nothing but losses up until this point. And this was our first victory in the Pacific. The second thing it did was the exact opposite for the Japanese, because the emperor had told them that the islands of Japan couldn’t be touched. And here these Americans bombed, you know, bombed the islands.
And so he lost faith in it. It was a difficult time for the Japanese. But the biggest thing it did was it made the Japanese change the way they fought the war from offensive to defensive. They pulled troops out of China and troops out of the Pacific to protect the home islands because they were afraid of another attack.
The raid itself, three men died that night. One died when he bailed out, two drowned when they ditched. Eight of them were captured by the Japanese. Three of those eight were executed by the Japanese and one was basically starved to death.
Four of them came home. There is an amazing book, if you want to ever read their story, called Four Came Home by C.B. Glines, and it actually tells what those raiders went through. They were tried by the Japanese as war criminals, and they were never going to be released, and it tells the whole story of how they were released at the end of the war and what happened to them over that time period.
As I said, one group landed in Russia, Interesting story, the pilot and co-pilot of that group, Ski York and Ammons, spoke Russian. And they were also in Air Force, ended up in Air Force Intelligence. But there’s a question as to what happened to that crew. They were interned for 15 months and then, quote, escaped, unquote.
But the Russians billed us for their room and board all that time. So it’s just interesting things that happen to the
Kim Monson
crews. Let’s think about these guys on the Hornet. Have you heard anything? I’m just thinking about what was going through their mind as they saw those bombers take off and every one of them was able to take off.
None of them crashed as they took off because that could have been a big risk. I just wonder what was going through their minds at that time.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Are you talking to the airmen or
Kim Monson
the Navy guys, the Navy guys,
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
we have to remember, you know, this is this is the first joint task force. And I mean, it’s their victory to they got the the Army Air Corps where they needed to be. And they were as much of a part of that raid as as the Army Air Corps were. I mean, it was, it was a joint victory.
It was a joint task force. And So I think they were equally as proud of what was accomplished.
Kim Monson
And it is super subjective. And I try not to ask subjective questions like this. But I mentioned, I think earlier, is the fact that your grandfather led that. There’s something about leadership, there’s something about men following another leader that they know will do what they what he asked them to do.
And that’s something I think that’s really important. That is a real leadership trait. Your thoughts on that, Jonna?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
You know, I think what made Grandad such a good leader is what I said before. He led by example, and he never asked his troops to do anything that he wasn’t willing to do himself. And he proved that over and over again. When he took over the 8th Air Force in Europe, until he was briefed on ULTRA, on code breaking, he would go out to the airstrips and he would fly with his crew.
He’d be in one of those airplanes so that he could understand what they were doing and what they were going through. Until the losses got so great in the 8th Air Force, he wrote, personally wrote, every single family of anyone who was lost. Throughout the years, you know, the Raiders, we named together as a group. They called him the boss.
They called her Mama Jo, my grandmother Mama Jo. He led because he cared about his people, and he cared about the mission, and I think he inspired those who followed him because of how much he cared.
Kim Monson
That’s important. We’ve got just a few minutes left. And you mentioned the losses. I interviewed Major Frederick Arnold, who he’s passed on, but he was a P-51 pilot in Europe.
And he was also a sculptor. And he actually before he passed on, he sculpted, I can’t remember now how many guys, but it was a bunch of airmen preparing for a mission in the briefing room. And of course, he talked about how young these guys were. But it wasn’t until that time where he said that we lost over 80,000 airmen in World War Two.
That is staggering to me, Jonna.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
It’s amazing, you know, the courage of these these young boys that would take off day after day knowing that the odds of them coming back were slim. The stories of courage, and if you go from bomb group to bomb group to bomb group, you will hear the same stories over and over again of just incredible stories. Not just the bomb groups, but the fighter groups too. And not just World War II.
I mean, look around at those of us who are still lucky to have Vietnam veterans around. Listen to the stories of courage of these people that gave everything for us to have the freedoms that we enjoy today. I mean, it’s amazing how many people have stories that you just don’t know. You almost have to ask.
Kim Monson
You do and actually I had three uncles that served in the European theater in World War II and we would get together for picnics in the park in the summer and I didn’t realize, I knew they They were just family. I’m
Speaker 10
really sorry to interrupt here, but since you started this segment with my observation, I would furiously do a little research here. And the answer to the question that is that from 1910 up until 1945, Korea was part of the Japanese Empire. So that’s the answer.
Kim Monson
Thanks. Thank you for that clarification. And Jonna Doolittle Hoppus, we have just about a minute left. What is the final thought that you’d like to leave with our listeners today?
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
I think it would go back to the stories that surround us and that we should encourage people to record their stories. Because if history isn’t recorded, then there’s no way that we will really understand what it costs to have the freedoms that we have in this country. And the stories are everywhere. They’re all around you.
Kim Monson
They
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
are well known.
Kim Monson
It is well known that art, and would highly recommend the book calculated risk. Because that’s how we can know these stories as well. Janna Doolittle Hoppus, I so appreciate this, this interview. And it’s just remarkable.
It is on the 79th anniversary of the Doolittle raid over Japan. Thank you so much.
Jonna Doolittle Hoppes
Well, thank you, Kim, for inviting me.
Kim Monson
And my friends, as we listen to these stories on America’s Veteran Stories, we realize that we live on the shoulders of giants. And so God bless you and God bless America.
Announcer
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
Speaker 3
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ Management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
