James H. Harvey III Shares His Inspiring Tuskegee Airman Journey

 

Announcer
00:13 – 00:34
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and our other wars and conflicts. America’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America’s veteran stories with Kim Monson.

Announcer
00:34 – 00:44
These stories will touch your heart, inspire you and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Monson.

Kim Monson
00:48 – 01:12
Welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. The show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France for the 72nd anniversary of the Allies’ D-Day landings to liberate France from Hitler and his Nazi regime.

Kim Monson
01:13 – 01:29
returned stateside realizing that we need to know these stories. We need to record them and broadcast them and archive them and hence America’s veteran stories. I am so honored to have on the line with me Lieutenant Colonel James H. Harvey III.

Kim Monson
01:30 – 01:41
He was the winner of the very first military Top Gun competition. It is a remarkable story. Colonel Harvey, welcome to the show. Thank you.

Kim Monson
01:41 – 01:50
Glad to be with you. That’s correct. I grew up in a small town in northeastern Pennsylvania called New England Station.

James Harvey
02:02 – 02:36
You can tell how big that was by the name. Okay, I was the first of four children, and I was the only child for nine years. My mother was told that she couldn’t have any more children after I was born. Anyway, my brother arrived nine years later, and three years after that, a sister, and three years after that, another sister.

James Harvey
02:36 – 02:36
So

Kim Monson
02:36 – 02:48
there are a total of four of us. Okay, and you are going to celebrate your 100th birthday here in 2023, correct? What was it like growing up in this little town in Pennsylvania? It was great.

James Harvey
03:04 – 03:08
We’re the only family of color out there in the area. And

Speaker 1
03:09 – 03:09
I

James Harvey
03:09 – 03:28
didn’t have any problems whatsoever. No name-calling, no nothing. I was just one of the other groups, one of the other people, I should say, living there in Nogales, Pennsylvania. And when I moved there, when we moved there, I was in the 7th grade in the schoolhouse.

James Harvey
03:29 – 03:53
When I finished the two-room school, I went to high school up in Mountain Top, Pennsylvania. And that school went from first grade through the twelfth grade. But anyway, I entered on the ninth grade, and uh, here again, the name Colin, no nothing, I just wanted to go. So I fit right in with everything.

James Harvey
03:54 – 04:16
The only sports they had in the school were gymnastics and basketball. And I was the head commander in the gymnastics team, and captain of the basketball team. Here again, no problems, no name-calling, no nothing. I’m just another person.

James Harvey
04:17 – 04:26
In my senior year, I was class president, class president in Valedictorian. Here again, just another guy.

Kim Monson
04:28 – 04:59
First of all, we need to reclaim that experience here in 2023 America of no name calling and just that experience. So that gives me heart. But I’m hearing this and we’ve done an interview before and I think that’s one of the things that at least I feel is a takeaway is your continued striving for excellence and it sounds like it started when you were in school. It

James Harvey
04:59 – 05:16
started before I went to school. It started early in my life. I used to listen to Walt Disney and see his characters. And I used to draw them.

James Harvey
05:17 – 05:38
And as a matter of fact, my drawings are better than his. But everything had to be perfect. I didn’t celebrate anything last intersection. So I just carried through all through my military career up until the time I got married.

James Harvey
05:38 – 05:43
When I got married I had to knock it off. Tell us about when

Kim Monson
05:43 – 05:45
did you get into the military then?

James Harvey
06:02 – 06:16
Okay, I tried to enlist in the military in January of 1943. I tried to enlist in the Army Air Corps, I should say. They said they weren’t taking enlistments at that time. That was the height of the war.

James Harvey
06:17 – 06:45
So what they were telling me is they didn’t want any people of color in the Army Air Corps. So they drafted me into the Army in March of 1943. and that’s when I ran into segregation when I was inducted into the service. I took a train from 44th Pennsylvania bound to Fort Meade, Maryland.

James Harvey
06:45 – 07:10
Arrived in Washington, D.C. early in the morning and we were early, like I say, and so I got off the train and went to a restaurant Were you absolutely shocked? And first of all, you wanted to get into the Army Air Corps, and they said no, that they were not taking enlistments during the height of the war.

Kim Monson
07:22 – 07:40
But yet then, a few months later, you’re drafted into the Army. Were you just shocked, Colonel Harvey, when they said that this car was not for you? Were you just aghast? What went through your mind at that time?

James Harvey
07:41 – 07:47
Okay, so you’re in the army now. What happens after that, Colonel Harvey?

Kim Monson
07:55 – 07:56
Okay, I’m in the Army

James Harvey
07:57 – 08:25
and what they did is they put me in the Army, the Army Air Corps Engineer driving bulldozers, graders, carry-alls. My mission was to go in the jungles of the Pacific, go down an area and build an airfield. Well, I got a spot in practice in a little town called Accotank, Virginia. So I would get all sweaty and dusty and I said, no, this isn’t for me.

James Harvey
08:25 – 08:41
So I applied for cadet training. I was accepted and ten of us went to bowling field to take the exam. Nine whites and myself. We took the exam and when the dots cleared, there were two of us standing.

James Harvey
08:42 – 09:22
White guy and myself. So from there I went to Biloxi, Mississippi to keep the feel. Okay, so you’re off to Tuskegee and so what happens when you get there? They put us in a rocker cub to see if we had the aptitude to fly an aircraft.

James Harvey
09:22 – 09:44
So I finished that, and then I was assigned to primary training. In primary training, we flew PT-19 aircraft, not the bi-wing, but an all-wing monoplane. and I looked more like a fighter. I flew that in primary.

James Harvey
09:45 – 10:05
Finished primary and then went to basic. And basically had a BT-13. It’s normally called a multi-vibrator because it would vibrate and get the airspeed too low. And then I went to advanced training and after advanced training I went to a tactical unit.

James Harvey
10:07 – 10:16
but well I should say overseas training unit and from there I was assigned to a tactical unit. Okay

Kim Monson
10:17 – 10:26
now there at Tuskegee this would be all black pilots is that right or what did that look like exactly at Tuskegee?

James Harvey
10:28 – 10:44
Well, in primary, our instructors were black. I don’t like to use that term, but anyway, we’ll use it. What term should I use? You can use anything you want.

James Harvey
10:44 – 10:46
I just don’t like that term.

Kim Monson
10:47 – 11:05
Well, I’m just so yeah, just explain to us the listeners what that looked like when you got there. I’m sorry. Okay, so at Tuskegee instructors, you know, what did that all look like? Because the Tuskegee Airmen are so famous.

Kim Monson
11:05 – 11:08
So, you know, what did that all look like?

James Harvey
11:10 – 11:35
All our instructors in primary were instructors of color. They had finished training at Tuskegee Institute. The government had a plan where they trained youngsters, or I shouldn’t say youngsters, college graduates to fly aircraft. And the best ones were used as instructors.

James Harvey
11:37 – 12:12
Now, our instructors were people of color, and their job was twofold. Number one, teach us to fly, and number two, envision us to what would happen when we got to our white instructors in primary training. I’m sorry, in basic and advanced. So, what they would do is they would do all kinds of things to provoke us to do something where we could get washed out.

James Harvey
12:12 – 12:32
They’d call us names like the instructors would be calling us. Anything to provoke us to do something. and so they could correct us and get us on the right path so we wouldn’t do anything stupid. They did a good job.

Kim Monson
12:33 – 12:41
So they were teaching a real discipline then as well, yes Colonel Harvey? Yes. Wow. They had

James Harvey
12:41 – 12:45
a two-fold job in primary. Well,

Kim Monson
12:47 – 13:04
it was important because there were those that probably wanted you guys to wash out, yes? What was that? There were people out there that wanted you guys to wash out so to not wash out was super important, yes? Correct.

Kim Monson
13:06 – 13:07
But they didn’t

James Harvey
13:07 – 13:16
think we could fly, period. So we knew we could. But anyway, yes, your question, your statement, I should say.

Kim Monson
13:16 – 13:30
Now, is it a class? Would you say it was this class of Tuskegee Airmen? How many guys were in this, this class or unit that you were training with? Maybe 25 or 30.

James Harvey
13:33 – 13:33
And

Kim Monson
13:33 – 13:33
that’s a

James Harvey
13:33 – 13:39
pretty good percentage, isn’t it, for completion?

Kim Monson
13:40 – 14:20
Right. Well, and I think I’m assuming everybody knows what washing out means, but it means that you don’t make it through. And I know that I’ve interviewed a number of pilots that it was just sheer grit to make sure that they didn’t wash out. I’m talking with Lieutenant Colonel James H.

Kim Monson
14:20 – 14:41
Harvey III, Tuskegee Airman, and the winner of the first ever Top Gun competition, our military Top Gun competition. And we will talk about that here in just a little bit. But before we go to break, I wanted to mention the Center for American Values, which is located right here in Pueblo, Colorado. Pueblo, Colorado.

Kim Monson
14:42 – 15:10
is known as the home of heroes because there are four Medal of Honor recipients that call Pueblo home and the Center for American Values does great educational programs to talk about integrity and honor and patriotism and they also have a beautiful portraits of Valor which is a hundred and sixty different Medal of Honor recipients with quotes. The center is open seven days a week 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Kim Monson
15:10 – 15:15
You can get more information by going to AmericanValuesCenter.org. We will be right back.

Speaker 8
15:16 – 15:46
REMAX Realtor Karen Levine helps bring to life the individual stories of our servicemen and women. With her sponsorship of America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson, Karen honors the sacrifices of our military and is grateful for our freedom. As a member of the National Association of Realtors Board of Directors, Karen works to protect private property rights for all of us. Karen has a heart for our active duty military and veterans and is honored to help you buy or sell your home.

Speaker 8
15:46 – 15:49
Call Karen Levine at 303-877-7516 to help you navigate buying or selling your home. That’s 303-877-7516.

Speaker 4
15:59 – 16:18
All of Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of the Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimMonson.com. That’s Kim Monson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.

Kim Monson
16:31 – 16:41
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And I am so pleased to have on the line with me Lieutenant Colonel James H.

Kim Monson
16:41 – 16:59
Harvey III. We wanted to make a clarification. In the previous segment, I had said that you were the military’s first top gun, that you’d won that competition. But you wanted to clarify that, Colonel Harvey.

James Harvey
17:00 – 17:17
Yes, I do. Our team consisted of four people, three primaries and one alternate. Now, the three primaries were Captain Temple, First Lieutenant Harry Stewart, and First Lieutenant James H. Harvey III.

James Harvey
17:19 – 17:21
And the three of us won the meet.

Kim Monson
17:23 – 17:55
and we’ll let’s well you know what we’re talking about let’s talk about I’m trying to think here let’s go ahead and talk about the competition while we’re making this clarification I know that it there’s a lot of experience we want to talk about between when you had gotten out of advanced training. But let’s talk about the competition right now. You said that there were four team members, and all Tuskegee Airmen, is that correct, Colonel Harvey?

James Harvey
17:56 – 18:04
Well, that was our team from Rockport in Columbus, Ohio. But all the other fighter groups in the United States participated.

Kim Monson
18:05 – 18:21
Okay, but your team was all Tuskegee Airmen, yes or no? Yes. Okay, so how many different teams were competing for this topic? And this was, what, do I remember right?

Kim Monson
18:21 – 19:04
Wasn’t it like 1949 that this was or I can’t remember? May of 49. May of 49, okay. So World War II is over and of course 1948 came the United States Air Force Okay, so this is now the very first competition for the United States Air Force.

Kim Monson
19:05 – 19:12
Top Gun. It’s a team of four. There are teams from all over the country. How many teams were competing, Colonel Harvey?

James Harvey
19:12 – 19:17
Oh boy, you ask me

Kim Monson
19:18 – 19:19
that. A lot.

James Harvey
19:19 – 19:22
Should we say? Yeah, a

Kim Monson
19:22 – 19:22
lot.

James Harvey
19:22 – 19:23
That’s

Kim Monson
19:23 – 19:29
a good answer. We’ll say a lot. Okay, so first of all, where was this competition at?

James Harvey
19:31 – 19:39
I was at Las Vegas Air Force Base, Nevada, which is now Nellis. Okay. And what did

Kim Monson
19:39 – 19:40
it entail?

James Harvey
19:40 – 19:56
Okay. It was aerial gunnery at 12,000 feet, aerial gunnery at 20,000 feet, dive bombing, skip bombing, rocket firing, and panel strafing. They were the events.

Kim Monson
19:57 – 20:12
Wow. Okay, so each of the pilots on your team, did they have a specialty or what did that look like in these competitions? Did they have a special what? A specialty.

Kim Monson
20:13 – 20:21
So did, like, for example, did you do the dive bombing and somebody else did the aerial at 12,000 feet or what did that look like?

James Harvey
20:22 – 20:34
No, we all did the same thing, each mission. If it was a dive bombing mission, we all dive bombed. The skip-bombing mission, we all skip-bomb. Same thing for all the teams.

Kim Monson
20:36 – 20:41
And what is skip-bombing? I know what dive-bombing is, but what is the skip-bombing?

James Harvey
20:42 – 20:58
You come in very low on the ground, your propeller carrying ground by about a foot, and then you drop, you release your bomb. I won’t tell you my secret. We release our bombs. We’re so low, it doesn’t have a chance to nose over yet.

Kim Monson
21:05 – 21:18
Is that dangerous for the pilot if you’re so close, so low to the ground, and you drop it? I mean, if it immediately would detonate, would that be a problem for the airplane?

James Harvey
21:19 – 21:28
No, it doesn’t detonate at that point, because when you drop it, it’s a cone shape on the front, a rounded front. Okay, okay.

Kim Monson
21:54 – 22:02
Tell us about dive bombing. I find that intriguing and very scary. So what does dive bombing look like exactly? Okay,

James Harvey
22:03 – 22:20
you come over to your target about 10,000 feet. You roll it over and drop down vertical on your target. Then you decide when you want to release your bomb. But you have to make sure for the meat, you have to release it and pull out by 2,000 feet.

James Harvey
22:25 – 22:38
Anyway, that’s the procedure for dive-bombing. Come over your target, roll over, drop straight down, line up on the target, release your bomb when you think you should release it, and pull out. I find

Kim Monson
22:38 – 22:40
that remarkable. Oh my gosh.

James Harvey
22:40 – 23:14
There was an F-82 that was involved. We had a young airman from our group, and he wanted to get a ride in an F-82 to see what dive-bombing was like. in US English It’s sort of a flat attitude at the bottom and kept going down and struck the ground and killed both of them. Oh

Kim Monson
23:14 – 23:26
my gosh. Yes. Yeah, it’s truly, truly an art. So the competition is occurring here in Las Vegas.

Kim Monson
23:27 – 23:34
It’s now Nellis Air Force Base. How many days was the competition? I’m just

James Harvey
23:34 – 23:35
trying to

Kim Monson
23:35 – 23:35
think

James Harvey
23:35 – 23:36
about

Kim Monson
23:36 – 24:03
what would be happening there. You’re drafted in 1943 and that’s where you started to see segregation in the military. in 1943.

Speaker 11
24:20 – 24:21
No one was for our success. They

Kim Monson
24:21 – 24:25
didn’t plan on it either. We weren’t supposed to win. When we won, that upset everything.

Speaker 3
24:49 – 24:50
And

Kim Monson
24:50 – 25:06
if I remember right from our last interview, it took a number of years before you and your team actually received the award. Am I recalling that correctly? Well, we

James Harvey
25:06 – 25:19
received the award, recognition of the award we did not receive. We finally got

Kim Monson
25:19 – 25:33
that in January of 2022. Almost 73 years later. Boy, that’s something. What else do you want people to know about the competition?

Kim Monson
25:33 – 25:38
And we’ll finish that up in this segment. What else should people know about that?

James Harvey
25:40 – 25:59
Well, we were competing with the best the Air Force had to offer. And so right there, we weren’t supposed to win because we weren’t considered anything. Anyway, we won the meet. I’ll just drop it there.

James Harvey
25:59 – 26:08
We won the meet. In the record books, it said the winner of 49th Rebels League was unknown. Unknown. Unknown.

James Harvey
26:10 – 26:17
We finally got that corrected after 46 years. Boy, that’s a long time. Yeah,

Kim Monson
26:17 – 26:34
everything takes a long time when we’re involved. Yes. What about you and your teammates when you won the competition? What did you guys say to each other?

Kim Monson
26:34 – 26:36
How did you lean on each other with all this?

James Harvey
26:38 – 26:48
Well, we’re related, and we won. Plus, we had an incentive. We met with our commander, Col. Benjamin O’Neill Sr.

James Harvey
26:48 – 27:06
at the Oxford in Columbus, Ohio, before we left, going to Vegas. His big-wadded remark was, if you don’t win, don’t come back. So, with all dregs of encouragement, off we went.

Kim Monson
27:08 – 27:34
That is really exciting. I’m still just thinking about the fact that you weren’t recognized for a number of years for the win, but I guess what I will say is it’s about time. In all this, Colonel Harvey, did you ever feel like a victim? Feel like a victim?

James Harvey
27:34 – 27:42
Yes. Oh yeah, I felt like a victim. It didn’t bother me. I just kept going on and doing what I had to do.

James Harvey
27:42 – 27:42
Correct.

Kim Monson
27:42 – 28:08
Correct. Correct. Always. Okay, and at this point, what would you say to the young people of America right now?

Kim Monson
28:09 – 28:32
I mean here you’re going to be a hundred years old your accomplishments are absolutely remarkable You started as a young age. It sounds like probably at home the striving for what you said perfection, but striving for excellence What would you say to the young people of America now? Always trying to be the best I’m talking with Lt. Col.

Kim Monson
28:32 – 28:33
James H.

Speaker 3
28:33 – 28:34
Harvey III, Tuskegee Airman. He and his team

Kim Monson
28:34 – 29:19
won the very first Top Gun military competition and at this time I wanted to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation. Paula Sarles is the president of the Marine Memorial Foundation and she and her team are raising money for the remodel of the Marine Memorial out at 6th and Colfax. and you can help them by going to USMCMemorialFoundation.org to contribute, to donate. Also, you can buy a brick to honor your military service or your loved one’s military service.

Kim Monson
29:19 – 29:34
It will be on a walk pathway, a walkway there, and you will receive now a beautiful certificate for that. So, for more information, go to USMCMemorialFoundation.org. That is USMCMemorialFoundation.org. We’ll be right back with Lieutenant Colonel James H.

Kim Monson
29:34 – 29:35
Harvey III.

Speaker 6
29:37 – 30:00
In these tumultuous times, it is necessary that we each have a freedom library to know and understand our history. Bury Him! A Memoir of the Vietnam War by Captain Doug Chamberlain is a must for your personal library. In this honest and gripping memoir, Captain Chamberlain recounts the chilling events that took place during his command of a company of young marines at the height of the Vietnam War.

Speaker 6
30:01 – 30:02
God bless America.

Kim Monson
30:35 – 30:44
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. Thrilled and honored to have on the line with me Lieutenant Colonel James H.

Kim Monson
30:45 – 31:07
Harvey III, a Tuskegee Airman. He and his team won the very first Top Gun competition in 1949. Colonel Harvey, you are drafted into the Army in 1943. Did you end up going to either Europe or the Pacific during World War II?

Kim Monson
31:09 – 31:09
No, I did

James Harvey
31:09 – 31:33
not. I finished combat training in April of 1943, and I had my bags packed. Within one hour of catching the train to go to Norfolk, Before we move on, I wanted to ask you a little bit more about the washout rate regarding becoming a pilot in the Army Air Corps at that time.

Kim Monson
31:50 – 31:52
In the early 40s, in January and

James Harvey
31:52 – 32:23
February, the washout or failure rates for white cadets was running at 63%, which is pretty high. The first class that went through Tuskegee, the washout rate was 47%. They said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’ll never happen again.

James Harvey
32:24 – 32:38
So they made sure they had a washout rate for us of 73% or higher. 10% higher than the white kids. So that’s the way to put it.

Kim Monson
32:38 – 32:44
And the reason is though, is you were treated differently. It was tougher, yes?

James Harvey
32:45 – 32:49
No, our rate could not be lower than the white cadets. That wouldn’t look good.

Kim Monson
32:50 – 32:50
Right.

James Harvey
32:52 – 33:06
So they made sure they had a washout rate of 73%. That’s why only 996 of us graduated. We would have had a lot more graduate. But we didn’t have it because the cops had them in on graduation day.

James Harvey
33:07 – 33:14
One of the cadets had a spot on his trousers. They washed him out. He didn’t have anything to do with his flying. None whatsoever.

James Harvey
33:15 – 33:58
Now, Colonel Parrish, our commander at Tuskegee, used to go to Montgomery, Alabama, where they had a flying school. He’d tell the commander over there, we wash out better pilots at Tuskegee than you graduate over here, which is true. We lost a lot of good people. of When they switched the P-51 for escort missions, they decided to paint the tails on the aircraft red.

James Harvey
33:59 – 34:08
And they also used the call sign Red Tail. So that’s how all that began, when they got the P-51 and painted the tails red.

Kim Monson
34:09 – 34:15
Okay. Which aircraft did you fly for the competition? Or were there different ones?

James Harvey
34:16 – 34:20
No, we flew one aircraft. That was the P-47. Obsolete P-47. It was a good aircraft,

Kim Monson
34:20 – 34:20
though,

James Harvey
34:20 – 34:24
but obsolete. That was a good airplane. Then again, it depends on the mission. If you’re air-to-air, P-51.

James Harvey
34:24 – 34:24
If

Kim Monson
34:24 – 35:17
you’re air-to-ground, no, you want the P-47. Okay. Now, going to this washout rate that in fact there were Tuskegee Airmen that washed out that your commanding officer said are better than some of the guys over at this other base that they graduated. The Red Tails had an amazing reputation and I talked to, it was again either a bomber pilot or their child that said that the Red Tails saved their lives.

Kim Monson
35:17 – 35:27
I think it was a child. He said the Red Tails saved my father’s life and that they would request the Red Tails escort whenever they could. So speak to that Colonel Harvey.

James Harvey
35:29 – 35:43
Okay, well let me back up. I was at Oshkosh about 24 years ago. Manning a Tuskegee Airman Blue. And this white guy came up and we started talking.

James Harvey
35:44 – 36:01
And he was saying he knew a pilot. He knew a Luftwaffe pilot. And that Luftwaffe pilot was telling him, he said in their daily briefing, they were told If you see a red tail, don’t go in. Really?

James Harvey
36:01 – 36:02
That’s right.

Kim Monson
36:03 – 36:15
That’s right. So no wonder the bombers would bombing pilots would request request you. Okay, well, how long? How long were you?

Kim Monson
36:15 – 36:19
Go ahead, sir. Go ahead. Plus,

James Harvey
36:20 – 36:27
we flew with the bombers through the flack and all. We stayed with them. in US

Kim Monson
36:41 – 37:03
Well, because the real purpose would be to escort the bombers so that they could get to their target. And Colonel Harvey, I didn’t really realize it until after I started doing these shows. You know, we’ve always heard, don’t give me any flack. And I never really understood what that was until I learned what flack was.

Kim Monson
37:03 – 37:16
And of course, the closer you get to the target, the more flack would be shot up into the air to try to damage the aircraft, correct? Correct. Not damage it, shoot it down. Right.

James Harvey
37:17 – 37:18
Okay. And some bad stuff.

Kim Monson
37:20 – 37:35
Okay, so we’ve gotten through now to 1949. You and your team have won this competition, but we move into, quickly, the Korean War. So where did you end up during the Korean War?

James Harvey
37:37 – 37:55
Okay. The meet happened in May of 49. In June of 49, I shipped out to Misawa, Japan. Now, Eddie Drummond, who’s another pilot in the 99th, he and I went to the same outfit in Misawa, Japan.

James Harvey
37:56 – 38:26
But before we left Lockbourne, our 201 file had been sent to the commander of the outfit at Misawa. and in there was our picture. So the commander called all the base pilots in the theater and he said we have these two negro pilots coming in and they’ll be assigned to one of the squadrons. Well the pilots told us this and so they said no way are we going to fly with them,

Speaker 3
38:26 – 38:26
no way.

James Harvey
38:27 – 38:50
Okay. Eddie Jobb and I report in to the wing commander and that’s how our base is planned. and we were chit-chatting and he said, what do you want us to call you? And I said, well, I’m a First Lieutenant, Eddie Drummond’s a Second Lieutenant, how about Lieutenants Harvey and Drummond?

James Harvey
38:51 – 39:10
He said, okay, but that’s what he was supposed to do anyway. See, at that time we had two air forces, White Air Force and the Negro Air Force. So I guess, I don’t know what he was thinking, but anyway, Well, Benny made a mistake. He said, we have three fighter squadrons on the base.

James Harvey
39:11 – 39:19
Two T-51 squadrons and an F-80. F-80’s a jet. He said, which squadron do you want to go to? And I said, F-80.

James Harvey
39:20 – 39:37
So he put us both in the F-80 squadron. Now, they didn’t have a T-33, which is the trainer version of the F-80. But they did have an AP-6, and that’s what we flew in advance. Now in the back seat of the AP-6 you have a hood.

James Harvey
39:37 – 39:44
You can pull it up, lock it in place. You can’t see out. Now you can see your instruments. The look ahead is dual.

James Harvey
39:45 – 39:58
Here’s myself as an example. I get two flights in this AP-6 in the back seat. I get in the back seat, strap in, pull my hood up. I can’t see out.

James Harvey
39:58 – 40:30
The pilot up front, which is one of them, He calls the tower and gets instructions for us to taxi out and line up on the runway. And when he lines up on the runway, he says, OK, you’ve got it. In the meantime, I’m over there and I can’t see out, and I stay under the hood. OK, I run my power up, release my brakes, down the runway I go, get off the ground, pull up the gear, flaps, switch control, drop the throttle, stuff you have to do on a conventional aircraft.

James Harvey
40:32 – 40:50
I fly around doing manoeuvres he wants me to do. Then I contact ground control approach and they vector me in for a landing. And when I touch down on the runway, the pilot sort of takes off. I had two flights like that before we both did.

James Harvey
40:50 – 40:59
So what does that have to do with flying the F-80? Nothing. This has bothered me for years. Then I finally figured it out.

James Harvey
41:00 – 41:27
They wanted to see if we could fly. No matter where we went, we had to prove that we could fly. Anyway, that’s that story. Before I took off on my first flight, I was on the maintenance line inspecting the aircraft, and the crew chief said, you’re going to wave goodbye on takeoff.

James Harvey
41:28 – 41:46
I said, oh. Anyway, I did not wave goodbye. The reason he said I would, is because in the P-47 you have to push and pull to get the aircraft to do anything. You know, push and pull, I’m talking about on the stick, to make the

Speaker 3
41:46 – 41:47
ailerons move.

James Harvey
41:48 – 41:58
And on the jet aircraft, it’s just a little pressure, that’s all. Very little pressure to get it to do what you want it to do. Anyway, I took off. I did not wave goodbye.

James Harvey
42:01 – 42:05
He forgot I was a Tuskegee Airman. We adapt very quick.

Kim Monson
42:08 – 42:17
So, I still don’t understand though. Why did he say wave goodbye? To take your hands off the stick or what? Well, because you have to push and

James Harvey
42:17 – 42:27
pull. You have to physically move the stick to get the aircraft to do anything. On a jet aircraft, it’s just a little pressure. That’s all.

James Harvey
42:28 – 42:38
Yes, a little pressure to get him to do what you want him to do. That’s the big difference. So you can over control him really easy. And I do not over control.

James Harvey
42:38 – 42:39
He knew

Kim Monson
42:39 – 43:33
I was right. We’re going to continue the conversation here in just a moment with Lieutenant Colonel James H. Harvey III. and and how I got to know them is a really important story about freedom and free markets and capitalism and you can find that at my website KimMonson.com.

Kim Monson
43:34 – 43:37
So we will be right back with Lieutenant Colonel James H. Harvey III.

Speaker 7
43:39 – 43:58
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Speaker 7
43:58 – 44:18
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Speaker 1
44:22 – 44:38
You’d like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of the Kim Monson Show, but you can’t remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim’s website, KimMonson.com. That’s Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N, dot com.

Kim Monson
44:47 – 44:55
Welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is americasveteranstories.com. I am talking with Lieutenant Colonel James H.

Kim Monson
44:55 – 45:15
Harvey III. He is a Tuskegee Airman as well as he and his team were the winners of the very first Top Gun competition and just a fascinating career. He will be celebrating his 100th birthday this year. Colonel Harvey, what about Korea?

Kim Monson
45:17 – 45:32
You flew missions in Korea. The Korean War is referred to as the Forgotten War and a lot of people don’t know that much about it. So tell us about your experience during the Korean War. I was stationed

James Harvey
45:32 – 45:52
in Japan when the Korean War started. I think it was September 21st when it started. And we were at Osaka, Japan during gunnery competition or gunnery training, I should say. And then we immediately moved to Inazumi, Japan, which is the next island.

James Harvey
45:53 – 46:17
And we operated out of there until I think it was September. And then we moved to Daegu, Korea. But… Well, Wing Commander was always talking to the Far Eastern Air Force commander about a cut-off of missions where a pilot could not be flying anymore missions over Korea.

James Harvey
46:18 – 46:35
And Lincoln was coming down. And finally, on Christmas Day of 1951, word came down that all he needed was 100 missions. Well, I had 126 then. I got there at 126 in 89 days.

James Harvey
46:37 – 46:45
I lived in Edinburgh. That was my mission. That’s why I was there to fly missions over for you.

Kim Monson
46:47 – 46:52
And how many missions did you fly? 126. Oh my gosh. And what did the missions entail?

Kim Monson
46:58 – 47:00
Okay, we carried

James Harvey
47:00 – 47:17
two items, well, three items. 50 caliber ammunition on all the missions. Us, we carry either napalm or 500-pound bombs, dependent on the mission. Now, if you’re going against tunnels, where the North Koreans love to hide, we carry napalm.

James Harvey
47:18 – 47:26
You drop the napalm, and napalm loves oxygen. So you drop the napalm at the entrance to the tunnel, in US English

Kim Monson
47:45 – 47:57
Well, 126 missions. What did a mission look like? How many planes were there in the formation? What did that look like exactly?

James Harvey
47:57 – 48:09
Okay. Now, a mission… We were flying the F-80, and this was any four aircraft. Any four aircraft would go out by themselves and come back.

James Harvey
48:11 – 48:26
I’m a flight commander now in this outfit. Pilot said they weren’t going to fly with me. I’m scheduling them to fly now. Anyway, I’m a flight commander and I have a flight of four, three others and myself.

James Harvey
48:27 – 48:32
And we’d have a bombing mission or a napalm mission.

Speaker 3
48:32 – 48:33
Depends

James Harvey
48:33 – 48:44
on what the target is. We know that before we take off. Anyway, we go out and extend our ammunition and come back alive. And that’s our mission.

Kim Monson
48:45 – 48:51
Okay. How long were you in the Air Force, Colonel Harvey? 22 years. Okay.

James Harvey
48:55 – 49:02
It’s actually 21. I was one year in the army my first year and I was going to an applying school while I was still in the army. Well Vietnam,

Kim Monson
49:02 – 49:08
I was a reserve officer in the military and I didn’t so therefore I had a date of separation.

James Harvey
49:25 – 49:33
But they didn’t send me to Vietnam because I was too close to retirement.

Kim Monson
49:35 – 49:46
What would you like our listeners to know about the Korean War and the Vietnam War, just from your perspective of living through that time in our country?

James Harvey
49:50 – 50:08
It is an expression they use a lot more. They say war is, and you fill in the blank. Which it is. When you’re flying, or any other job you have in the military, you do your job.

James Harvey
50:09 – 50:13
And if everyone does their job, things will work out okay. No problem.

Kim Monson
50:15 – 50:46
You know, as I’m thinking about your story, Colonel Harvey, so many times people may be in a job where they may not like their boss or their co-workers. That actually is part of life. I mean, I’m thinking about your experiences where people were trying to wash you guys out. And in the military, you can’t really choose who you’re working with as far as your commanding officers and all.

Kim Monson
50:47 – 51:01
I mean, there’s a real life lesson for people there that are currently unhappy with maybe some of the people that they, you know, are interfacing with. What would you say to them when they are in that experience? need a

Speaker 3
51:01 – 51:02
job.

Kim Monson
51:03 – 51:03
When

James Harvey
51:03 – 51:14
I went to Newfoundland, I was working for a full colonel. And he made this statement one day. He says, you don’t care for me, do you? I said, no, sir.

James Harvey
51:15 – 51:22
But I’ll do the job for you. And I did. And what did he say? As long as I do the job, that’s all I can say.

James Harvey
51:22 – 51:33
That’s all he wanted anyway for me to do the job for him. I don’t have to like him to do the job for him. Well, I’m out to do the job to the best of my ability, and here comes the perfectionist again. Anything I

Kim Monson
51:35 – 52:04
do, I want to do perfect. I do want to ask you, you said you were a perfectionist until you got married. So how did that match up with you? Because I find that such an interesting and intriguing comment.

Kim Monson
52:05 – 52:07
So expound upon that a little bit.

James Harvey
52:08 – 52:19
Okay. Well, let’s start it. My wife and I were using the bathroom. We had two separate bowls in the bathroom.

James Harvey
52:20 – 52:28
and she was getting ready to brush her teeth and she was squeezing the tube from the middle. You know, you grab the tube and squeeze it.

Kim Monson
52:42 – 53:03
So it was, I will choose where I will squeeze the toothpaste, tube of toothpaste. That is, that is a, that’s very, very funny. What, what Well, anything I can, I didn’t think it was, well, when I think about it, it was amazing. But, again, I was just doing my job, that’s all, to the

James Harvey
53:06 – 53:11
best of my ability. And perfection comes in there.

Kim Monson
53:25 – 53:55
Well, and I realize with me that I cannot hit perfection, but I do encourage me and those around me to strive for excellence in what we do. And if you strive for excellence, things work out pretty well over the long term, even though it’s not easy, but striving for excellence will get you a long way down the road, Colonel Harvey. Yes, it will. It will.

James Harvey
53:55 – 54:15
Now, you don’t have to go for perfection. That was my girl, my mantra, whatever you want to call it. Strive for perfection. Even today, like toilet tissue, you tear it off, maybe there’s a little piece left, you tear a little piece

Kim Monson
54:17 – 54:30
off. Now it’s straight. What about your other Tuskegee Airmen? Who is one of them that stands out that you would like people to know about them?

Kim Monson
54:30 – 54:30
Oh

James Harvey
54:33 – 55:03
boy. Well, during my military, when they broke us up with scabinets, I only ran across one Tuskegee Airman of my own 21 years after that. It was a year later, no it was a couple of years later, so I’d say 20. For 20 years I never saw a Tuskegee Airman.

James Harvey
55:03 – 55:18
When I left Japan and went to Victorville, California, one of them came into the squadron at Victorville, 94th Fighter Interceptor Squadron. He was flying F-8-16s. He came in, he was there about a year and he left. It’s like that.

James Harvey
55:19 – 55:26
Why he left? I don’t know. But that’s the only time I saw another Tuskegee in my whole career.

Kim Monson
55:26 – 55:53
Did you feel that finally, because you were so good, did you finally gain the respect of the other pilots? I mean, and I don’t really want to put them all in a group because people react to things differently, but did you finally feel like you belonged or were part of it or did that ever occur? It never occurred to me. I always

James Harvey
55:53 – 56:02
thought I belonged. You don’t like me here? Okay, get rid of me. But, uh, I never had any problems.

James Harvey
56:02 – 56:09
I was white, well-liked. Uh, I did my job. I did my job better than they did,

Kim Monson
56:09 – 56:15
so what could I say? Nothing. Right. That would command respect in doing so.

Kim Monson
56:15 – 56:42
So again, to all of us out there, I take heart in striving for excellence and realizing that people say, do things we don’t like, but if you stay focused, I think that’s the other thing I’m hearing from you. Colonel Harvey is focused. You stayed focused on what was important and I think people can get distracted too easily. Your thoughts?

James Harvey
56:49 – 56:52
I don’t know. I never get to that point. I’m always

Kim Monson
56:52 – 57:05
focused. I think that is true that distraction and Lieutenant Colonel James H. Harvey III, those are not in the same sentence. Colonel Harvey, I thank you so much for this important interview.

Kim Monson
57:06 – 57:12
It’s inspirational. I’ve learned a lot in my conversations with you and I so thank you for the interview.

James Harvey
57:12 – 57:15
Thank you. Thank you very much.

Kim Monson
57:16 – 57:23
And indeed, my friends, we do stand on the shoulders of giants. So God bless you and God bless America.

Announcer
57:24 – 57:41
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7. and KLZ 100 points.

Speaker 2
57:41 – 57:55
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.