Charles Cram’s Journey From California to Iwo Jima

Announcer
00:07 – 00:34
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and her other wars and conflicts. America’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America’s veteran stories with Kim Monson.

Announcer
00:34 – 00:43
These stories will touch your heart, inspire you, and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Monson.

Kim Monson
00:47 – 01:07
And welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And the show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans to Normandy, France for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings.

Kim Monson
01:07 – 01:35
and return stateside realizing that we need to know the stories of those that have been willing to give their lives for us to live in freedom, and hence America’s veteran stories. I am so honored to have on the line with me Charles Hilliard Cram, and he is a World War II veteran. Charles, welcome to the show. Okay, it’s great to have you.

Kim Monson
01:36 – 01:40
Charles, where did you grow up? Where were you born? I

Charles Cram
01:41 – 01:43
was born in Los Angeles, California.

Kim Monson
01:45 – 01:48
And tell us a little bit about your childhood.

Charles Cram
01:51 – 02:24
Well, my early childhood after I was born in Los Angeles, my first I remember it was in Santa Monica with my grandparents living in there. And later on I had moved with my father and we moved to Glendale, Glendale, California. And that’s where all my elementary school went and junior high school and part of my high schooling went. I lived in Glendale and from that area I went into the service from there.

Kim Monson
02:24 – 02:42
Okay, and one of the things that Dan and Candice, your son-in-law and daughter, had written is that you would sometimes ride your bike 25 miles to get to the beach. I think that’s pretty interesting.

Charles Cram
02:43 – 03:09
Yeah, we used to ride from Glendale to Santa Monica or a place called Castle Rock. Sometimes we’d get onto the streetcar tracks, there were streetcar tracks, and with the bloom tires, bicycle we had, we’d ride on the tracks. Oh my gosh. Sometimes we’d hitch rides with the Helms bakery truck if it was going that way, it’d hang on to it, which is not very safe.

Charles Cram
03:09 – 03:12
You don’t tell kids to do that today.

Kim Monson
03:12 – 03:36
This is true. I have this visual, but pretty amazing. So let’s talk about, so you grew up in Glendale, California, and so you were a kid during, well, during the Great Depression, as well as the beginning of World War II. So what do you remember about the Great Depression?

Charles Cram
03:37 – 04:01
Not too much. My father had bought a home in Glendale, and I remember he had paid about $4,500 for this house, as you can imagine at that time. And then from there, I went to elementary school and then junior high school and high school from there. And that’s when I left and joined and went into the service.

Charles Cram
04:02 – 04:29
And in fact, when the Japanese had come and shelled the coast of California, I had become a messenger runner for the air raid warden on our block. I remember seeing that shelling in the morning. The sky lit up with artillery craft and other stuff that day. That’s when the Japanese had tried to attack the California coastline.

Kim Monson
04:29 – 04:39
Charles, I did not realize this. This is the first time I knew the Japanese were out near the coast, but I didn’t know that there was an actual attack on the West Coast.

Charles Cram
04:41 – 04:56
It was a shelling just south of Santa Barbara. I don’t remember the name of the little community. None of the Japanese came ashore or anything. This is just a little small bombardment, I guess.

Kim Monson
04:57 – 05:18
Okay. And there’s been a quote that I’ve heard that one of the reasons the Japanese did not come on shore is because Americans, because of our Second Amendment, most Americans at the time had firearms and that they knew that if they came ashore that they would come up against significant resistance. That’s what I’ve heard.

Kim Monson
05:18 – 05:19
Would you concur that that’s correct?

Charles Cram
05:21 – 05:35
I assume that it is. I mean, I don’t recall that. Okay, now

Kim Monson
05:35 – 05:44
you mentioned one other thing about neighborhoods being organized in case of a Japanese attack and I’ve not heard about that either. So explain that to me, please.

Charles Cram
05:47 – 06:08
about the neighborhood being organized without you? Yeah, there was a civil defense that was formed and different aspects of it and I happened to be a messenger for the air raid warden in the area that I was in and I was to give messages from him to the other supporters within the area about what was going on. And that was in Glendale?

Charles Cram
06:08 – 06:19
That was in Glendale, California. Right. I can remember the searchlights going up in the sky and everything else, but I didn’t, we didn’t hear any shelling or anything from the Japanese.

Kim Monson
06:20 – 06:32
Okay. And being a messenger, did you have to train for that or would you ride your bicycle to get messages around or what was that supposed to look like, Charles? The neighborhood wasn’t that big,

Charles Cram
06:32 – 06:41
and it was just a matter of going and doing the running. If I had to use a bicycle, I would, but we didn’t really get into that aspect of it.

Kim Monson
06:41 – 06:45
Okay. Okay. That’s really fascinating. So what do you remember?

Kim Monson
06:46 – 06:55
You’re a teenager then. World War II starts, Pearl Harbor, when it was bombed. What do you remember about that before you went into the

Charles Cram
06:55 – 07:41
service? I remember I started working at a place called Gliding McBean and in the department that I was working in, one of the fellas there had been in a service in the Navy and he’d been injured, he’d fallen down the shaft in a submarine and when injured, I came to work and he tried to influence me to go into the service in the Navy and one of the other fellows that I worked with, Johnny Rulon, who was one of my buddies, we both worked there at the same place, we both joined the service primarily on what he had told us about a good life.

Kim Monson
07:42 – 07:47
And you joined the Navy, correct? Pardon? You joined the Navy?

Charles Cram
07:48 – 07:57
Yes, I finally ended up by joining the Navy, because one of the aspects was that you had a good, clean place to sleep. You didn’t have to sleep in the mud and the dirt.

Kim Monson
07:59 – 08:11
You’re not the first person that has told me that, regarding if you knew where you were going to sleep, for sure. So you joined the Navy, then you were 17, correct?

Charles Cram
08:12 – 08:37
That’s correct, yes. I remember going down to the train station in downtown Los Angeles because I had joined in Burbank, California. But when we left to go to Camp Farragut, which is in Idaho, we left from downtown Los Angeles. And one of the aspects that before we loaded the train, I saw all these people with stripes on them.

Charles Cram
08:38 – 08:48
And I guess they were army people. quoting them. They were all prisoners of war. They weren’t Japanese and they weren’t German.

Charles Cram
08:49 – 08:57
They were all prisoners. They had done something to break the law and that’s what they were going to be confiscated in prison, I guess.

Kim Monson
08:58 – 09:06
Okay. And you saw this from the train or where was that exactly, Charles? No, that was right in the station before we got on the train. And

Charles Cram
09:06 – 09:24
then we got onto the train and we went north through California, through Oregon, all the way to Washington, and I believe we went to Seattle, and then we went over to Spokane, and then from Spokane we went to Camp Farragut, which was in Idaho.

Kim Monson
09:24 – 09:30
Okay, and what was training like there when you got to Camp Farragut?

Charles Cram
09:32 – 10:01
Well, it was interesting because I had my buddy John Lulon. We were both in the same platoon and we did all the training and everything else. And then from there, after we finished what we call boot camp, we had to make a decision where we wanted to go. And apparently my background, because my mother had been a nurse, I decided to stay in the Medical Corps, and John went into the Cooks and Bakers because his father had been a cook.

Charles Cram
10:02 – 10:20
He had his restaurant. So he went into the Cooks and Bakers store, and I went into the Navy. And then I went into the Hospital Corps. And the Hospital Corps had a facility there at Farragut, Idaho, and I went through the training there.

Kim Monson
10:22 – 10:24
Okay, and what was that training like, Charles?

Charles Cram
10:26 – 10:48
Well, it was basically all medical. We were told what application of medicines we would take and just a general background on that. I mean, I couldn’t save somebody’s life or anything, but I mean, we were able to do emergency things for people and work as far as the human body is concerned.

Kim Monson
10:48 – 11:01
Okay, and you joined in 1943, and so things were really, you know, I mean the war had been going on for several years now. After you got out of boot camp, where did you go, Charles?

Charles Cram
11:03 – 11:22
After I got out of where? Oh, boot camp. I stayed at Farragut to go to Hospital Corps School. I finished the Hospital Corps School, and from there, I was sent to Oakland Naval Hospital after I had graduated from hospital course to interrogate.

Charles Cram
11:23 – 11:39
I went to Oakland, California where the U.S. Naval Hospital was. I stayed there for some time. I had an interesting background there. I stayed in a a neuropsychiatric ward.

Charles Cram
11:39 – 11:47
They were all padded cells. These people were kind of crazy. They didn’t know what was going on. So I had that, but I didn’t stay there too long.

Charles Cram
11:47 – 12:09
And I went from there, I went over to Treasure Island, which is a small island in the San Francisco Bay. And I stayed there for three days. And then from there, I received a notice that I was to go to Camp Elliott in San Diego. I was to join the United States Marine Corps.

Charles Cram
12:10 – 12:52
So I left from there and went to San Diego. And one of the interesting aspects of going to San Diego was the day that I had arrived there, A fella came in from the Navy into the barracks where we were and called my name out and said that I had to go with him somewhere. And I didn’t know where it was, so he took me to an officer that I didn’t know, and he introduced me to the officer who happened to be Captain Naviti. He was in charge of the all the Navy personnel that was attached to the Marine Corps.

Charles Cram
12:53 – 13:13
And so he looked at me, and I looked at him, and I didn’t know too much about him. And he introduced himself to me as a fellow member of the University of Michigan, where my mother had gone to medical school. And he knew my mother. And when he saw the name came up, Clam, he thought he’d find out who he was.

Charles Cram
13:13 – 13:41
So anyway, the first thing he did looked at me, he said, Clam, go get a haircut. Other than that, I went into training with the Fleet Marine Force at Camp Elliott. And a little bit later there, after getting all the training we had there, we were sent to Camp Pendleton. That was in the, I believe it was in December, 1943.

Charles Cram
13:41 – 13:57
I went to Camp Pendleton. And the station there and I, joined what was called Company A, 1st Battalion, 26th Marine, 5th Marine Division. And that’s where I stayed for all my work.

Kim Monson
13:59 – 14:20
OK, so what kind of training? So I’m thinking about that was, you said that was December, you thought of 1943. So the planning then is going on over in Europe for D-Day. And then it’s important that people understand over in the Pacific, there’s all these different islands.

Kim Monson
14:21 – 14:46
And so our commanders were trying to figure out which islands to take, that the Japanese had to, that we needed to get these airstrips to put our bombers in positions so that we could actually attack Japan. So there was a lot of strategy going on. You’re just a 17-year-old kid. Were you aware of what was happening over in the Pacific at that time, Charles?

Kim Monson
14:48 – 14:50
What happened,

Charles Cram
14:50 – 15:35
we were making a landing in the early part of 1944, I guess it was, after I joined the Marine Corps in 43. We were making a landing, we were attacking Southern California. We were attacking the city of Los Angeles, which was actually San Clemente Island, which is an island right off the coast from the Marine Corps base at Camp Pendleton, near Oceanside. and when we came in and landed on the shores of california up on the upper cliff looking down watching at us i didn’t know who it was at the time we were finally told it was president roosevelt he was watching us and it wasn’t more than several weeks

Charles Cram
15:35 – 15:52
after that we were told you’re going into combat you’re going into he didn’t tell us where we were going or anything else but President Roosevelt ordered the 5th Marine Division to go into combat. So that’s where our training went.

Kim Monson
15:53 – 16:07
I did not realize that, and that’s very interesting. I want to talk more about that training than in California. I’m talking with World War II veteran Charles Cram about his experiences. Absolutely fascinating.

Kim Monson
16:07 – 16:34
The official Marine Memorial is located right here in Colorado in Golden at 6th and Colfax. It was dedicated in 1977, and it is time for a facelift. and the USMC Memorial Foundation is working diligently to raise the funds to make that happen. And a great way that you can honor our military, to say thank you to those people who’ve put their lives on the line or have given their lives for our freedom, is to support the USMC Memorial Foundation.

Kim Monson
16:34 – 16:46
And you can do that by going to USMCMemorialFoundation.org. The Center for American Values is located in Pueblo on the beautiful River Walk. And it was founded for several reasons. One, to honor our Medal of Honor recipients.

Kim Monson
16:46 – 17:10
And they do that through over 160 Portraits of Valor of Medal of Honor recipients. But additionally, they are teaching these foundational principles of honor, integrity, and patriotism through many of their educational programs and also their On Values presentations. So for more information about the Center, go to AmericanValuesCenter.org. That’s AmericanValuesCenter.org.

Kim Monson
17:10 – 17:14
and we’ll continue the conversation with Charles Cram. Listen to this important message.

Sponsor
17:15 – 17:44
REMAC’s Realtor, Karen Levine, helps bring to life the individual stories of our servicemen and women. With her sponsorship of America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson, Karen honors the sacrifices of our military and is grateful for our freedom. As a member of the National Association of Realtors Board of Directors, Karen works to protect private property rights for all of us. Karen has a heart for our active duty military and veterans and is honored to help you buy or sell your home.

Sponsor
17:45 – 18:12
Call Karen Levine at 303-877-7516 to help you navigate buying or selling your home. That’s 303-877-7516. All of Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of the Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com.

Sponsor
18:12 – 18:16
That’s Kim Monson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.

Kim Monson
18:17 – 18:42
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past, because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories, and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history, because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier, and thank you for

Announcer
18:42 – 18:46
listening.

Kim Monson
18:54 – 19:03
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is americasveteranstories.com. I’m so thrilled to have on the line with me Charles Cram.

Kim Monson
19:03 – 19:27
He is a World War II veteran. And thank you to Dan and his daughter Candace, his son-in-law and his daughter Candace, son-in-law Dan and daughter Candace, there we go, for making this happen. Charles, I’m so fascinated about this training that you were doing on the coast of California. And so were you using Higgins boats or what did that training look like exactly?

Charles Cram
19:28 – 19:46
Yeah, we were from San Clemente Island. We made a landing on San Clemente Island in LCVP, so the Landing Craft Vehicle Personnel, which was the main core. You had to go over the side of the ship and do things. It was a boat, but the front gate came down and then you ran off the front.

Charles Cram
19:46 – 20:22
There wasn’t an alligator or water buffalo or anything, but track vehicles. This was just a boat, a landing boat, and then we made the landing on San Clemente, buttoned everything else up, and then we proceeded to land on the coast of California, the oceanside area north of there. And that was the invasion of Southern California, just a preliminary thing. And that’s where we were told, and we could see up on the top of one of the cliffs observing all of that, was President Roosevelt watching all of that.

Charles Cram
20:22 – 20:27
And they made the decision at that time, apparently, to send us into combat.

Kim Monson
20:28 – 20:41
Okay, and I’ve always thought this is so fascinating about going over the side of the ship. So was that those rope ladders and then to actually get into the craft that’s down at the bottom? I mean, that’s pretty tricky, isn’t it?

Charles Cram
20:42 – 21:00
Well, it was fun, but you had to know what you were doing. They had what they called cargo nets. And the cargo nets would be thrown over the side of the ship and the LTVP would be down and bouncing in the water. And it depended upon how rough the water was, whether you’d get in there or you’d fall in there.

Charles Cram
21:00 – 21:35
So all in all, it was quite an experience to learn how to do that. Some of the other troops, later on, they were able to go from a larger vessel into what were called alligators or water buffaloes. Those are tracked vehicles that are like tanks that they would travel in the water and then they would hit the beach and they would make a turn to the left and the The troops that were inside there, they would jump off and be shielded by the vehicle that they were in from any gunfire or anything else.

Charles Cram
21:35 – 21:40
Those were used. Those were preliminary, the first invasion units that were brought in.

Kim Monson
21:42 – 21:51
Is this the only training, the actual training that you had before you ended up in combat? Did you go to Hawaii? Was there any other training on that? Or what did that look like, Charles?

Charles Cram
21:52 – 22:27
No, there were all sorts of horse markets and culinary things on the land where we made overnight camp outs and one thing or another with the Marine Corps at Camp Pendleton in the boondock areas. We made rubber boat landings at Penn Camp 3, which is the area of San Onofre, which is just south of San Clemente. We made landings there. We’d carry the rubber boats over our head to the beach area, and then we’d get on and go into the thing.

Kim Monson
22:28 – 22:40
This is absolutely fascinating. So anything else to tell us about training before we get to combat? Is there anything else you think that is important that people know?

Charles Cram
22:42 – 23:39
Well, we’d certainly combat treatment back at Camp Pendleton on forced marches and things and develop things along that line, but I mean, it wasn’t actual combat or anything. I think we got into more of that after we had left the California coastline and gone to Hawaii, and we trained in Hawaii in the volcanic ash there, and made landings in one thing or another on one of the other islands of Maui, and then back on Hawaii. And then one of the funny things was before we had left to go into combat, it was a little narrow gauge train that ran and carried sugarcane and things from the farms there that we took from Gila, Hawaii up to Kamuela where we were camped. And when we left there to go into combat, it was kind of ironic.

Charles Cram
23:40 – 24:14
The natives would cheer us and they’d show what is called The handshake was 2 to 1, you guys don’t come back. It was like a V for victory, but it was 2 to 1, you don’t come back. Because the camp we had been at in the Hawaiian Islands on Hawaii, was a camp established by the 2nd Marine Division after they had gone to Camp Tarawa for the invasion of Tarawa. They came back because they had heavy casualties there and that’s where they formed the thing.

Charles Cram
24:14 – 24:21
It was part of the Parker Ranch, which is the largest cattle ranch in Hawaii.

Kim Monson
24:22 – 24:38
That’s absolutely fascinating. So not come back. So, okay. So from there, then, and during this time, during all this training, we’re going to get to the Battle of Iwo Jima, which is, that’s where you saw combat, right?

Kim Monson
24:38 – 24:42
That was, was that the only battle that you were involved in? Or was there others?

Charles Cram
24:43 – 25:14
No, no, that was it at the time. I mean, when we were at Camp Elliott, When I first went to San Diego, before we joined the 5th Marine Division there, the 4th Division was running out because I ran into one of my neighbors that lived on the same block that I lived in, in Glendale, a fellow by the name of Bob Bass, and he was in the Marine Corps, and they were leaving to go to the Marshall Islands. They were going to attack the Marshall Islands.

Charles Cram
25:14 – 25:32
It was a preliminary step in the way that the war in the Pacific went from one island to the next island to the next island. And the last island that they got to was Iwo Jima. And then maybe Okinawa was right after that. Okinawa was right after Iwo Jima.

Charles Cram
25:32 – 25:37
In fact, part of the fighting in Okinawa was at the same time the Iwo was.

Kim Monson
25:38 – 25:56
And while you’re preparing on all this, D-Day happened over in Europe. That was June 6, 1944. Did you hear at all about that or were you guys just so focused on what you were doing?

Charles Cram
25:57 – 26:52
Well, we heard about it, but at the time I guess there was a lot of speculation that a lot of the troops that were in Europe would come to the Pacific and help us in the Pacific, but I don’t think it ever materialized that way. I think the higher-ups decided that they had to take Iwo Jima from the standpoint that the bombing raids on the homeland of Japan couldn’t be continued unless they took Iwo Jima because they were being shot down by the fighter pilots in that area on Iwo Jima. They had fighter pilots that would interrupt their flight. The flight from Saipan and Tinian where the big B-29s were to go to Japan was 1,500 miles trip.

Charles Cram
26:52 – 27:07
And they couldn’t make that thing with all these fighter planes. So a lot of those big 29s ended up by ending up in the ocean, or they ended up in China. So that was one of the reasons they decided that they had to take Iwo Jima.

Kim Monson
27:08 – 27:17
Well, and the Japanese commanders had figured that out. And so they had really fortified the island of Iwo Jima. Correct?

Charles Cram
27:19 – 27:44
Yeah, the general, Kurobayashi was his name. Tadadachi Kurobayashi, I believe his name was. He had been in the United States and he realized how the United States military operated and what they could do and what they couldn’t do. And so he was put in charge of the Homeland Defense, which was part of the Iwo Jima.

Charles Cram
27:45 – 28:06
And that’s what he did. And he started doing all the fortification on that island and everything else, bringing a lot of the troops from his own homeland, plus a lot of Koreans that were there that did the work of building the tunnels and other things on the island.

Kim Monson
28:06 – 28:27
So he had taken a significant amount of time to fortify the island, and so we’re going to continue this conversation. I’m talking with World War II veteran Charles Cram, and a sponsor that I greatly appreciate for America’s Veterans Stories is Hooters Restaurants. They have locations in Loveland, Westminster, and in Aurora on Parker Road, and great specials Monday through Friday for lunch. and for happy hour.

Kim Monson
28:27 – 28:44
Great place to get together with your friends to watch the sporting events and just to have some great food. In particular, their fish and chips and their nachos are delicious. I hear that their fish tacos are quite good as well. So again, thank you to Hooters Restaurants for their sponsorship of the show.

Kim Monson
28:44 – 29:03
And I want you to listen to this next very important message as well. And before we go to break, I have Lorne Levy in studio. And Lorne, you’re a great sponsor of both the shows, The Kim Unst Show and America’s Veteran Stories. But I know like you, America’s Veteran Stories, or like me, it has a special place in your heart.

Sponsor
29:04 – 29:20
Oh, absolutely. The way you’re capturing for prosperity or pos- Posterity. Posterity is the right word. What these guys have gone through is amazing, and because we’re not far away from not having many of them around anymore where they can tell their own stories, so it’s great what you’re doing.

Sponsor
29:20 – 29:20
I know.

Kim Monson
29:21 – 29:36
Again, these stories, it’s so important that we hear them, we record them, we archive them, and you’re a big part of that. And you’re an expert in the mortgage arena. You work with a lot of different lenders, and what are you seeing right now, particularly for veterans in the mortgage arena?

Sponsor
29:36 – 30:07
Yeah, and you and I have talked a lot at length about the VA loan and the availability that these former soldiers or fighters or even current military folks have to access a VA loan, which has great things. For example, a VA loan requires no down payment when buying a home. It allows you to cash out all the equity in your home all the way up to 100% and doesn’t have mortgage insurance attached to the bill, which could be hundreds of dollars a month that these folks don’t have to pay. And so the VA loan is a great program for these people.

Sponsor
30:07 – 30:17
You qualify by just providing your DD-214 and seeing how much money you qualify for, but I love that program and the rates are always lower than the regular conforming rates available to the public.

Kim Monson
30:17 – 30:27
So it is a way to say thank you to those that have been willing to give their lives for our freedom, for our liberty. And it is nice to say thank you on

Sponsor
30:27 – 30:42
that. Absolutely. You know, we talk a lot about the missteps of the government, or, you know, especially on your other show, and where they may have overstepped bounds or regulations, but in this case, the VA loan is one good thing that the government has done for these folks, and I’m glad to be able to help them.

Kim Monson
30:42 – 30:44
And how can people reach you, Lorne Levy?

Sponsor
30:44 – 30:47
The best way is to give us a call, 303-880-8881.

Kim Monson
30:49 – 30:59
So I thank you. And that is Lorne Levy, Polygon Financial Group. That number is 303-880-8881, 303-880-8881. And we’ll be right back.

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31:00 – 31:31
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31:32 – 31:44
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Kim Monson
31:45 – 32:10
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past, because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories, and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history, because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier, and thank you for

Announcer
32:11 – 32:19
listening. America land that

Kim Monson
32:20 – 32:28
I love. And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is americasveteranstories.com.

Kim Monson
32:29 – 32:52
I am so honored to have on the line with me Charles Hilliard Cram, a World War II veteran. He was born on March 15, 1926, so he has a birthday coming up here very soon. Charles, we’re getting to the point now, you know that you’re headed to combat. What was going through your mind as you realized that this was going to get real, real fast?

Charles Cram
32:54 – 33:12
Well, we were told by most of the officers in all the training we had done, if we had performed the way that they had instructed us, everything would be fine. We would be able to do our job and we’d be successful in any invasion we were going.

Kim Monson
33:14 – 33:27
And my understanding is also, before the Battle of Iwo Jima, that the commanders had thought that we would take the island within just a few days. Were you told that?

Charles Cram
33:30 – 34:02
Most of the Pacific islands, whether Tarawa, Eniwetok, or Guam, they were all figured out about 72-hour operations. It didn’t work out that way. I mean, he ran into more problems than others there with Iwo Jima. So it ended up Iwo Jima was fought for probably, I guess, I wasn’t there that long, but they fought for almost 30 some days over a month, I guess.

Kim Monson
34:03 – 34:21
And so let’s go ahead with this. It says, on Christmas Day, and this is some of the notes that Daniel and Candace sent, on Christmas Day, 1944, you boarded a ship in Pearl Harbor. So what do you remember of that day? In Hilo,

Charles Cram
34:21 – 34:25
Hawaii. Hilo, Hawaii, and then went over to Pearl Harbor.

Kim Monson
34:26 – 34:31
Okay, okay. So you boarded a ship. What was going through your mind at that time, Charles?

Charles Cram
34:32 – 35:03
Well, we became a little bit frightened over what happened because when we were loading the ship, we started loading it on Christmas Day, I guess it was. And one of the things that came out there after we’d been there was the fact that somebody had sabotaged one of the ships and put explosives into one of the ships. and whether it was some of the people from the Hawaiian Islands or whatever it was and they wanted to get sabotaged or whatever it was but apparently that didn’t ever happen.

Kim Monson
35:04 – 35:13
Yeah that would get your attention for sure Charles. So you’ve loaded the ship at Hilo, Hawaii, gone to Pearl Harbor. What happens after that Charles?

Charles Cram
35:15 – 35:49
Well, we left from Hilo, we went to Pearl Harbor, and they gave us what they call liberty, where we got off the ship and we could go into town and see what was going on in our recreation area. In fact, just a sideline I might point out was that I was talked into getting a tattoo at that time when I was in Hawaii. And the only thing that came up on my mind was, what’s my grandmother going to say? Because my grandmother was more or less raised in Kentucky.

Charles Cram
35:49 – 36:06
And what’s she going to say when she hears about her grandson getting a tattoo? So I didn’t worry about it after that. I realized that it happened and I got the tattoo. The tattoo was on my leg, so nobody really saw it unless I was in the bathing suit or something.

Charles Cram
36:06 – 36:06
OK,

Kim Monson
36:06 – 36:14
what was the tattoo? Pardon? What was the tattoo? It was a little swallow.

Charles Cram
36:16 – 36:29
I’ve seen one of the other fellas that had a swallow over each one of the nickels on his breast. One was sweet and one was sour. And he said, what do you call it? So I thought that was kind of neat.

Charles Cram
36:29 – 37:01
And I look back at it and wonder whether I lost my mind or not. Oh boy. Anyway, there was one thing I did mention to you that the B-29s that have been bombing Iwo Jima there for 70 some days, they had just completely bombed that thing out of the water, they thought. But apparently, Kurobayashi, the general that was in charge of the Japanese forces there, had had so many tunnels.

Charles Cram
37:01 – 37:12
Some of the tunnels and caves had been down so many feet under the ground, maybe 12, 14 feet, that none of the shelling or the bombing had made any difference with them at all.

Kim Monson
37:12 – 37:31
Right. So the plan was there was the Marines, the Navy corpsmen had no idea that the Iwo Jima was so fortified. And you went on to the island pretty early in the battle. And the battle began February 19, 1945.

Kim Monson
37:32 – 37:36
And you went on the island pretty early, right?

Charles Cram
37:37 – 37:38
That’s right.

Kim Monson
37:39 – 37:50
And the notes that I have here says that it was several hours after the initial landing. And so when you went on to the beach, what did you see? I

Charles Cram
37:50 – 38:21
mean, there’s not too many bodies laying around. It’s terrible. I just imagined that one aspect of what happened after we had departed out of the LCVP, the landing craft vehicle, and hit the beach and found a shell hole to get into, was the fact that I had opened up a little book that I had in my religion. It was called a little prayer book.

Charles Cram
38:21 – 38:40
And the ironic thing about it was, as I look back and I remember that I opened it up, and I opened it up right to one page that said, an act of resignation. And I read that thing, though, and I thought to myself, my goodness, that’s the last thing you think about if you’re still alive. You’re going to die. That’s what it was.

Charles Cram
38:40 – 38:43
And I thought maybe I was going to die as a result of that.

Kim Monson
38:44 – 39:05
And I know the Marines have such a reverence for Navy Corpsmen for what you guys have done in battle. So you get onto the island. My understanding is Iwo Jima is primarily volcanic ash and it was very difficult to move onto the island. You guys were almost like sitting ducks.

Kim Monson
39:05 – 39:07
So what happened then, Charles?

Charles Cram
39:09 – 39:50
well it was it was a small island it was only five eight eight seven and a half square miles i think it was from one end to the other end and uh it was so well fortified some of those positions were 25 30 feet down they had hospitals down underneath the ground and it was all volcanic ash because i remember On the second day, when we were dug in, you could feel the heat coming up out of the ground, where the sulfur and the smell was terrible. It was just unbelievable, the smell and the heat from coming up out of the ground. It was called the Sulfur Island, I guess.

Kim Monson
39:51 – 40:03
Well, and I do think about the Japanese in those tunnels and caves underground. I mean, it had to be so hot when they were hiding there.

Charles Cram
40:04 – 40:20
It was hot. I don’t know how the Japanese made it because they put some of their hospital work underneath there. They had all their fortifications under the ground. The only thing they had above the ground was some of their big artillery craft and some of the big mortars and other things.

Charles Cram
40:20 – 40:28
But they had bunkers and fortifications that were almost impregnable.

Kim Monson
40:29 – 40:44
Yes, and so the fact that the Marines were able to get to the highest point on the island, Mount Suribachi, relatively early in the battle and raise the American flag, that was a pretty big deal, wasn’t it, Charles?

Charles Cram
40:46 – 41:26
Well, it was to get Mount Suribachi, which is a high ground, but a lot of that was being operated the general was at the north end of the island and they would send messages to the to the people at sarabachi where they wanted their artillery fire developed in one thing or another so it was a well-coordinated effort on the part of the japanese It was the last fortification before the homeland of Japan was attacked, so they made every effort to fortify it and defend it with all their will.

Kim Monson
41:27 – 41:49
Yes, and this was a big morale booster for the Americans and really demoralized the Japanese to some degree, but of course the battle continued on. Let’s talk about, as the corpsman, you were attached to an assault squad, and tell us exactly what compiled that assault squad.

Charles Cram
41:52 – 42:54
The assault squad was basically from the first platoon of a company there was a group of guys it was a flamethrower a bar a demolition bangalore torpedo and uh other what do you call it the demolition people there were probably eight or nine of us and i was more or less attached to the assault squad and we we would have to go out after the barbed wire and we had to put bangalore torpedoes underneath there and blow it out and then go forward and make shape charges and all sorts of uh demolition things and throw them into the caves where the japanese were The assault squad was more or less separate from what the regular infantry could assume. The infantry could assume that they had the riflemen and the machine guns and other things, and it would be a breakdown from there.

Charles Cram
42:54 – 43:01
They were kind of the glorious group. And I thought, well, that’d be a good group to get into.

Kim Monson
43:01 – 43:08
Oh, Charles. Oh, my gosh. So you’re out there on the front line and as the corpsman. Did you carry a weapon?

Charles Cram
43:11 – 43:27
Yes. I had not only a carbine, but I also had a sidearm, which was a .45. They issued the Marine Corpsman .45 pistols, and they had the carbine. The carbine, I got rid of it.

Charles Cram
43:27 – 43:42
I think I dumped it on the beach. I didn’t need it anymore. 57 pounds of medical gear and all this other stuff and I couldn’t be carrying it and trying to take care of people at the same time. So I think I dumped it somewhere.

Charles Cram
43:42 – 44:00
I didn’t want it anymore. So I kept the .45 because we could use that if you were in a foxhole and a Japanese infiltrated your lines and came and wanted to jump into what foxhole would you could shoot him. It’d be easier than using the rifle.

Kim Monson
44:00 – 44:18
Okay, this is absolutely fascinating, talking with World War II veteran Charles Cram regarding the Battle of Iwo Jima, which is one of the most famous battles of the Marines, and such high regard for the Marines, Navy Corpsmen that were at that battle. So I want you to listen to this message.

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Kim Monson
45:28 – 45:54
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past, because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories, and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history, because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier, and thank you for listening.

Announcer
45:54 – 46:01
And

Kim Monson
46:01 – 46:09
welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is americasveteranstories.com. I am so honored to be interviewing Charles Cram.

Kim Monson
46:10 – 46:41
He will be turning 97 here very soon, and he joined the Navy became a Navy Corpsman at the age of 17. We’re talking about the Battle of Iwo Jima and he was with this amazing group that it was the flamethrowers and they had the bar guns and demolition, bazookas. And we had talked in the last segment, Charles, about the raising of the flag on Mount Suribachi. What do you remember about that?

Charles Cram
46:42 – 47:06
Well, as far as the flag raising on Mount Suribachi, we’ve been on the front lines three or four days without any relief whatsoever. Excuse me. And we’ve been called back to the west area. And we were in the west area, and that morning, we heard this big tear go up.

Charles Cram
47:06 – 47:26
We didn’t know what it was. And as a result, we looked up at the top of Suribachi, because we were down on the ground below there, and we could see this small flag raising up there. And I think most of us in our mind at that time felt, hey, the war must be over here. We must have ended that fight.

Charles Cram
47:27 – 47:43
because the flag is going up there. But that wasn’t the real situation. It was part of the 28th Marines that advanced all the way up to the top of Mount Suribachi and captured it and raised the flag at that time. So the war wasn’t over at all.

Charles Cram
47:44 – 47:49
It’s going to go on for probably almost another 28, 30 days, I guess.

Kim Monson
47:50 – 47:58
Right. So what happens with you? Because the Japanese, as you had said, they are so embedded in Iwo Jima. The flag goes up.

Kim Monson
47:58 – 48:00
What happens with you after that, Charles?

Charles Cram
48:02 – 48:30
After that, I went back into combat again. We were pulled back to the front line. We had gone after that, after the flag raising, I could see from where we were, I think there were three of us that kind of smoked around. We got out of our ranks and went into a couple of the caves, and one of the caves had taken off of one of the Japanese, a Japanese flag.

Charles Cram
48:31 – 48:43
that he had wrapped around him. He’d been shot or killed. And I took that flag, and I had that flag, yeah, the Japanese interior flag. And then we got back to our old outfit again.

Charles Cram
48:43 – 49:12
This was just snooping around. We were able to do that. And then we went on to the front lines again, and that’s where we ran into some problems with the Japanese trying to infiltrate our lines that one night. They were, Japanese would come into the, to our front lines where we were and we had to defend them, defend our troops that night.

Charles Cram
49:12 – 50:07
I remember throwing hand grenades out just almost indiscriminately because the Japanese were so infiltrating in our line. In fact, in one of the journals that I have, I have a journal that somebody wrote from the battalion and the company that indicated what happened during the whole battle and they claim and I can’t verify it at all that that night almost a battalion if you can imagine a battalion of Japanese tried to infiltrate our troops that night in our foxholes but we withstood them with the portions of some of the generals back there in the rear areas brought down a lot of gunfire, artillery fire and mortar fire and everything else and brought down most of the Japanese and they never did capture all of us or anything.

Charles Cram
50:08 – 50:15
Wow. But from that area right after that, I was wounded after that. tell

Kim Monson
50:16 – 50:17
me tell me about that

Charles Cram
50:17 – 50:44
yeah i’ve gone out to the front lines to take care of what he called i could say i was on the front line wiped in with one of the other fellows there i remember his name was angela corporal angela and uh i realized at that time that uh When I got to him, I laid down beside him, and I turned his head over to one side. I could see that Andrew had passed away. He’d died.

Charles Cram
50:44 – 51:07
And as a result of that, I couldn’t do anything, and I started to get up. And at that time, a Japanese sniper shot me, and I crawled and ran back and did what I could to get back to my outfit again. and I tried to treat some of the other people. I didn’t think it was that serious a situation that I’d been wounded.

Charles Cram
51:07 – 51:41
In fact, one of the other fellas that I took care of, I remember, I got in around a big foxhole, and Lucas Egbert was his name. He was from Utah. Ice fella, big, big fella. And Egbert had jumped into a foxhole, and in the foxhole, one of the fellas that was in there had his M1, but he had his bayonet on him, because they put bayonets for fighting the Japanese if they had to stab them or anything, and the bayonet was on

Charles Cram
51:41 – 51:56
the end of the rifle. And he dove into the foxhole, and he caught his foot on the thing and the blood was squirting out all over everything and so I took care of him before I was able to get to the battalion aid station with the help of myself.

Kim Monson
51:57 – 52:20
Well, and because of your actions, you received the Purple Heart, the Bronze Star, and the Silver Star, which is pretty amazing. And you were able to help others even though you were wounded, and that’s why you received the Bronze Star, correct? Or was that the Silver Star? Yes, correct.

Charles Cram
52:20 – 52:34
Well, the Bronze Star, I think that was true, yes. And then they gave you a Bronze Star on a campaign ribbon, which meant that you had been into combat.

Kim Monson
52:35 – 53:16
Okay, and then the Silver Star, and I just, I want to read this. It goes to Charles Hilliard Cram, Jr., Pharmacist Mate, Second Class, United States Naval Reserve. Citation, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity, while attached to Company A, 1st Battalion, 26 Marines in action against enemy Japanese forces on Iwo Jima Volcano Islands, February 22, 1945. Although severely wounded in the right thigh, when his company became the focal point of a devastating enemy artillery barrage which lasted for several hours, Cram persistently refused to be evacuated and leave the men who depended upon him for medical aid.

Kim Monson
53:16 – 53:44
Abandoning his position and fully aware of the personal risk of exposing himself to the intense, hostile fire, he ran along the front lines treating the many wounded and supervising their evacuation. By his heroism and voluntary service on behalf of others in the face of extreme danger, Cram upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Services. And that was for the President signed by Francis P. Matthews, Secretary of the Navy.

Kim Monson
53:44 – 53:46
It just takes my breath away to read that, Charles.

Charles Cram
53:48 – 53:59
That’s very nice of you to read the hat. I don’t read that by myself. I had a, what do you call it, a total of that thing. So I had it at the house.

Charles Cram
53:59 – 54:04
I don’t know where it is now or anything, but that’s very nice of you to read it. I appreciate that.

Kim Monson
54:04 – 54:16
Well, it is my honor to do so. So you are wounded and you’ve helped so many people during this time. What happens with you after that, Charles?

Charles Cram
54:18 – 55:25
Well, after I was evacuated from the island, I was taken back to the USS James O’Hara, which was used as a hospital ship. It wasn’t one of the hospital ship per se, but I was treated there. And, uh, about the USS James O’Hara and then from there I was taken back to Pearl Harbor and rejoined our organization, our company back there because I guess there were plans already being made for the invasion of Japan itself and so I went back to Hawaiian Islands and started training again and then We left from there because the end of the war, the European and then in the Pacific, the, I’m trying to remember the date, the French were, we were gonna vote.

Charles Cram
55:25 – 56:00
We were eligible to vote and at the same time, we were gonna invade the Japanese homeland at that time. So we were getting ready and about that same time, the United States had come up with the big B-29s that were going to drop the atomic bomb. And so at that time, the atomic bomb was in August, I guess it was August of that year that the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and another one on Nagasaki. And the Japanese realized what was going to happen.

Charles Cram
56:00 – 56:24
And we were going to go in at that time. We were going to get loaded for Operation Olympic, which was going to be the invasion of Japanese homeland. It was the largest invasion with the Army, the 5th Marine Corps, 5th, 6th, and all the Marine Corps, 3rd Marine Divisions, and the Army Division. We were going to attack the homeland of Japan.

Charles Cram
56:24 – 56:50
Well, it ended up The armistice was signed in Missouri, I believe it was, and the Japanese decided they weren’t going to fight anymore. They gave up. And as a result, we went into the island of Honshu, the second island, and to a place called Sasebo. In Sasebo, we stayed there almost a month, I guess it was.

Charles Cram
56:51 – 57:20
And from there, I was transferred to Peleliu, which is one of the other islands in the South Pacific that still had Japanese. And we were told we had to recreate those Japanese out of the island down there. So we went to Peleliu, and from Peleliu, I had enough points at that time. They came up with a formula for the amount of combat that you had and the length of service and everything.

Charles Cram
57:20 – 57:37
You had a certain number of points. If it came up that way, you could be discharged. So I was able to get aboard a ship and head back to the Pacific to the American here in San Pedro and be discharged.

Kim Monson
57:38 – 57:56
OK, what a fascinating story. We’re just about out of time. Charles, what’s the final thought that you’d like to leave with our listeners today? What’s the final thought you’d like to leave with our listeners?

Charles Cram
57:58 – 58:12
I don’t have any. The thought of war is something disgusting. You don’t ever want it again. And I look at what’s happening in the world today, what’s happening to the poor people over in the Soviet Union.

Charles Cram
58:13 – 58:28
in the Crimea area and I think of what they’re going through and what I have gone through and I hope that maybe we get a resolution to all of this and maybe the world can settle down to peaceful get together with one another.

Kim Monson
58:28 – 58:38
Absolutely, Charles Cram. Charles, this has been such an honor. I so greatly appreciate the interview and thank you to Dan and Candace for making this happen as well. So thank you.

Charles Cram
58:39 – 58:46
Thank you very much. I appreciate you listening to my story and hope that maybe something is gained by it.

Kim Monson
58:47 – 58:57
Oh, most definitely, Charles Cram. And indeed, my friends, you can see that we stand on the shoulders of giants. God bless you and God bless America.

Announcer
58:57 – 59:21
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7. The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers.

Announcer
59:21 – 59:30
They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ Management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.